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Old 02-16-2017, 02:19 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Nice pictures Turboprop, just a couple of comments:
- you can use the 2003-2008 TC primary if you have the tools and knowlidge to machine a hole in the TC inner primary cover, my indie did so with my tc build, works flawless.
- the oilpans you made are only for the evo type gearbox: the tc oil pickup is internal and vertical in the front of the oilpan (for my FXR-shovel build I went the opposite way: I used a 1994 evo tranny with the SDC TC oilpan so we had the make a other oil pickup point which looks a lot like the one you are doing)
- you are spot on with the exhaust mounting: we made a strong one (the rods are 15x15mm solid iron) firmly bolted to the tranny and we shaved off a lot from the oilspout, but it works







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1990 FXR SG (EA)
1990 FXRS Convertible (EM) (current state: allmost ready )
2015 FLTRXS
2016 FLSS (well actually my wife's bike)

Last edited by BadBart64; 02-16-2017 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 02-16-2017, 04:30 PM   #32 (permalink)
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turboprop
thanks for the heads

to my understanding the thunderheart works off of the crank position sensor and it has a big selection of pre set ignition curves on it
and it also has the option of a software package that allows you to modify the ignition

now i totally get having more sensors to gain input from in order to adjust is in theory better

but heres where i might differ my opinion (again im not claiming to be an expert by any means)

if im able to get air/fuel ratio charts to be nice steady flat lines tuning evos and shovelheads with super e and mikuni carbs with igntions that do not allow for custom set timing curves
(the last evo we just tuned with a dyna s ignition and super e carb had such a steady air/fuel line throughout the entire range it looked like a printout of a fuel injected bike )

why would i not be able to get the same out of running a carb with a crank position sensor for the engine timing and making my own timing curve with a twin cam.

Im really against doing a fuel injection setup or a complex wiring harness on this bike for a lot of reasons

I like to stick to what I know and I like to keep things relatively simple

Im just curious to hear some more info from you about the whole igntion


also on a side note im not looking to squeeze every drop of power out of this motor either
with the size motor and cams and compression ratio it will make way more than i need

thanks again for your replys and input
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Old 02-16-2017, 04:43 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbellamore View Post
turboprop
thanks for the heads

to my understanding the thunderheart works off of the crank position sensor and it has a big selection of pre set ignition curves on it
and it also has the option of a software package that allows you to modify the ignition

now i totally get having more sensors to gain input from in order to adjust is in theory better

but heres where i might differ my opinion (again im not claiming to be an expert by any means)

if im able to get air/fuel ratio charts to be nice steady flat lines tuning evos and shovelheads with super e and mikuni carbs with igntions that do not allow for custom set timing curves
(the last evo we just tuned with a dyna s ignition and super e carb had such a steady air/fuel line throughout the entire range it looked like a printout of a fuel injected bike )

why would i not be able to get the same out of running a carb with a crank position sensor for the engine timing and making my own timing curve with a twin cam.

Im really against doing a fuel injection setup or a complex wiring harness on this bike for a lot of reasons

I like to stick to what I know and I like to keep things relatively simple

Im just curious to hear some more info from you about the whole igntion


also on a side note im not looking to squeeze every drop of power out of this motor either
with the size motor and cams and compression ratio it will make way more than i need

thanks again for your replys and input
You obviously have your mind made up and thats fine. I really don't care, not here to debate or school anyone. But keep this in mind, there is no way for an ignition system that does not have some sort of vacuum sensor on the manifold to adjust its timing. It is an accepted fact that an engine wants more advance under light load cruising and less advance under conditions of acceleration. Without that sensor that TH system is stuck with whatever single ignition curve is selected. Best of luck with this.
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Old 02-16-2017, 04:51 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBart64 View Post
Nice pictures Turboprop, just a couple of comments:
- you can use the 2003-2008 TC primary if you have the tools and knowlidge to machine a hole in the TC inner primary cover, my indie did so with my tc build, works flawless.
- the oilpans you made are only for the evo type gearbox: the tc oil pickup is internal and vertical in the front of the oilpan (for my FXR-shovel build I went the opposite way: I used a 1994 evo tranny with the SDC TC oilpan so we had the make a other oil pickup point which looks a lot like the one you are doing)
- you are spot on with the exhaust mounting: we made a strong one (the rods are 15x15mm solid iron) firmly bolted to the tranny and we shaved off a lot from the oilspout, but it works
Umm, thats not completely accurate. But again, not here to debate or school anyone.

As for my oil pans, some of them came from TC transmissions and were setup for use on a TC. I have pictures of them someplace. Not hard to do.

What you say about the later TC FL inner primary is not complete. As shown in your pictures, the inner case is very thin where the tube passes through. In order to do this properly, that area of the case must be welded up and then milled flat. The FXR inner primary is very thick in that area, enough to cover two of the grooves for o-rings and support the shifter. I have the tooling and expertise to machine an inner primary like that and have done it twice. Both times there were issues with sealing and I suspect that over time the hole in the inner primary would become distorted from use.

Again, not here to debate or school anyone, just want to show how easy, and lack of machining welding is required to TC an FXR is the proper amount of planning is done up front.

Best of luck to you.
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:06 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Fab Kevin has some nice pics on how he handled the shifter on the later model tc inner. The earlier fl inner has the meat for the shifter just need to bore the hole.
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:10 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecir45 View Post
Fab Kevin has some nice pics on how he handled the shifter on the later model tc inner. The earlier fl inner has the meat for the shifter just need to bore the hole.
The '01 and later five speed models have the material. All years of the six speed inner primary cases are thin, none of them have the material to seal or support the tube.

Fab Kevin does nice work. His mid shift adaptation is done very well. Very few will achieve his level of craftsmanship.
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:10 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboprop View Post
One of the benefits the TC vs an evo or shovel platform is the TS ignition system has a three dimensional ignition MAP compared to the simple two curves (high and low vacuum) of an evo or shovel equipped with a voes.

I prefer eom replacement type modules and a stand alone engine only wiring harness. Again, look at the engine only harness's available from Wire-Plus.
Are you talking setup for a carburetor? What year bike model schematic would reference this if so?
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:11 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboprop View Post
The '01 and later five speed models have the material. All years of the six speed inner primary cases are thin, none of them have the material to seal or support the tube.

Fab Kevin does nice work. His mid shift adaptation is done very well. Very few will achieve his level of craftsmanship.
5 speed 6 speed thanks for explaining better.
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Old 02-16-2017, 07:13 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecir45 View Post
Are you talking setup for a carburetor? What year bike model schematic would reference this if so?
For the wiring harness there are a couple ways to do it. I am currently doing it the hard way, but won't make the same mistake again.

The hardware involved adapting an oem wiring harness from a carbureted dyna. Currently in the middle of such an adaptation and to do it properly and cleanly, just about every connector has to be moved. Fun.

An easy way would be to keep the FXR wiring harness intact and simply use an engine only harness from Wire-Plus. I am sure there are other ways. But this would be very easy.

http://www.wire-plus.com/Twin-Cam-Wi...tems_c_47.html
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Old 02-16-2017, 07:42 PM   #40 (permalink)
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turboprop im not debating at all im actually intrigued by what your saying here and i like that you have this all well thought out

i see that engine harness from wires plus

i guess i should have asked what specific ignition module would you suggest using to use a carb on the motor ?
or is that not an option ?
it would have to be fuel injected only

i dont mind using that wires plus harness and than making the rest myself
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Old 02-16-2017, 07:52 PM   #41 (permalink)
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There are several companies that offer oem replacement TC ignition modules. I like Daytona Twin Tech but Dyna is just as good.

http://www.daytona-twintec.com/TC88.html

http://www.zippersperformance.com/dy...-ignition.html
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:58 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboprop View Post
Umm, thats not completely accurate. But again, not here to debate or school anyone.

As for my oil pans, some of them came from TC transmissions and were setup for use on a TC. I have pictures of them someplace. Not hard to do.

What you say about the later TC FL inner primary is not complete. As shown in your pictures, the inner case is very thin where the tube passes through. In order to do this properly, that area of the case must be welded up and then milled flat. The FXR inner primary is very thick in that area, enough to cover two of the grooves for o-rings and support the shifter. I have the tooling and expertise to machine an inner primary like that and have done it twice. Both times there were issues with sealing and I suspect that over time the hole in the inner primary would become distorted from use.

Again, not here to debate or school anyone, just want to show how easy, and lack of machining welding is required to TC an FXR is the proper amount of planning is done up front.

Best of luck to you.
BBart-
Look forward to your replys on these important points.


[QUOTE=Turboprop;5320610]There are several companies that offer oem replacement TC ignition modules. I like Daytona Twin Tech but Dyna is just as good.

http://www.daytona-twintec.com/TC88.html



http://www.zippersperformance.com/dy...-ignition.html

OP-

FYI, I run a DTT and make big HP, and never heard of Thunderheart doing the same....so- you invested big bucks in your new TC....are you good if and when you dyno it, and it doesn't make the power you expected? You say you have talked to "experts" who assure you all is good there-who are they, specifically? This is a small world the HP power community lives in...
Pipe, ignition, carb and tune will make you or break you.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:16 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboprop View Post
Umm, thats not completely accurate. But again, not here to debate or school anyone.

As for my oil pans, some of them came from TC transmissions and were setup for use on a TC. I have pictures of them someplace. Not hard to do.

What you say about the later TC FL inner primary is not complete. As shown in your pictures, the inner case is very thin where the tube passes through. In order to do this properly, that area of the case must be welded up and then milled flat. The FXR inner primary is very thick in that area, enough to cover two of the grooves for o-rings and support the shifter. I have the tooling and expertise to machine an inner primary like that and have done it twice. Both times there were issues with sealing and I suspect that over time the hole in the inner primary would become distorted from use.

Again, not here to debate or school anyone, just want to show how easy, and lack of machining welding is required to TC an FXR is the proper amount of planning is done up front.

Best of luck to you.
Ok I was not clear enough on the inner primary: we used one from 2001 or newer. I'm running it now for 2 years and it holds up No oil leaks etc).

The oilpans you are showing are all evo-type oilpans

Another advantage of using a tc-style tranny is that you can use the TC swingarm, which is about 15mm longer but much stronger than the original FXR swing arm.
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1990 FXR SG (EA)
1990 FXRS Convertible (EM) (current state: allmost ready )
2015 FLTRXS
2016 FLSS (well actually my wife's bike)
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Old 02-17-2017, 06:13 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBart64 View Post
Ok I was not clear enough on the inner primary: we used one from 2001 or newer. I'm running it now for 2 years and it holds up No oil leaks etc).

The oilpans you are showing are all evo-type oilpans

Another advantage of using a tc-style tranny is that you can use the TC swingarm, which is about 15mm longer but much stronger than the original FXR swing arm.
No, they are not. Look at the oil pans again. The key identifier is on the underside. Look at the 'hump' on the front. Not all evo oil pans. 2 evo and one TC.

And you are wrong again on requiring the TC trans to run the 2002 and up bagger swing arm. The later transmission is not required at all. There are several kits with a bushings and bearings designed to go into the swingarm allowing it to be used with the ⅝" swingarm pivot shaft found on '01 and earlier bikes.

There is another way to run the '02 and up swingarm on an earlier bike and that is to bore and ream the hole in the transmission. That is what I did.

Here are two of my bikes with evo transmissions and '02 and up swingarms. One has adapter bearing from CCE the other had the trans case bored/reamed.

You should really stop putting out wrong information.




Last edited by Turboprop; 02-17-2017 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:07 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboprop View Post
No, they are not. Look at the oil pans again. The key identifier is on the underside. Look at the 'hump' on the front. Not all evo oil pans. 2 evo and one TC.

And you are wrong again on requiring the TC trans to run the 2002 and up bagger swing arm. The later transmission is not required at all. There are several kits with a bushings and bearings designed to go into the swingarm allowing it to be used with the ⅝" swingarm pivot shaft found on '01 and earlier bikes.

There is another way to run the '02 and up swingarm on an earlier bike and that is to bore and ream the hole in the transmission. That is what I did.

Here are two of my bikes with evo transmissions and '02 and up swingarms. One has adapter bearing from CCE the other had the trans case bored/reamed.

You should really stop putting out wrong information.
The information is not wrong: the '02 and up swingarm fits without a kit or boring/reaming in a TC 5-speed tranny.
Its just easier to fit a '02 and up swingarm to a 5-speed TC tranny.
I did not say that it is not possible to do it another way.
My shovel FXR has a 1994 and up touring tranny which we machined in order to fit the '02 and up touring swing arm.

With some work the '08 and up swingarm can also be fitted in a FXR frame.


In regard to the oilpans, I looked for the vertical oilpickup, but it seems that you removed them completly

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1990 FXR SG (EA)
1990 FXRS Convertible (EM) (current state: allmost ready )
2015 FLTRXS
2016 FLSS (well actually my wife's bike)

Last edited by BadBart64; 02-17-2017 at 08:14 AM. Reason: oilpan added
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