96-103 SE pistons don't match cylinders

[alexlivetoride]

I have ordered 2 SE flat top pistons and 103ci cylinders, since I already had the BS1 air cleaner, I bought them separately to save money. Now my bike is under warranty repair at the dealer, they will throw in the 103 no extra labor. The tech said the piston rings don't match the cylinders, they have to spend hours to correct fit them. WTF? The service writer said I have to order them as a kit part# 27535-08 so they match, is it true? I am so frustrated Please help!

[Jeffytune]

There are two 103 engines, the pre 2006 engine and the post 2007 engine. The difference is the stroke of the engine, as the 96 is a stroker engine and used shorter pistons. (Higher wrist pin)

I would best that is the issue.

[alexlivetoride]

Thanks for your quick reply, the pistons and jugs I ordered from the same dealership, according to the SE book, they are the right parts for my 07 Dyna 96CI. The service writer said they have to install torque plate, work on the brand new cylinders and match rings, that's another 3 hours labor. WTF? I don't understand, why do manufacturers bore out each cylinders differently? Don't they have a standard? I can't see why the piston rings are different either, I don't understand.

Originally Posted by Jeffytune

There are two 103 engines, the pre 2006 engine and the post 2007 engine. The difference is the stroke of the engine, as the 96 is a stroker engine and used shorter pistons. (Higher wrist pin)

I would best that is the issue.

[werdna65]

Originally Posted by alexlivetoride

Thanks for your quick reply, the pistons and jugs I ordered from the same dealership, according to the SE book, they are the right parts for my 07 Dyna 96CI. The service writer said they have to install torque plate, work on the brand new cylinders and match rings, that's another 3 hours labor. WTF? I don't understand, why do manufacturers bore out each cylinders differently? Don't they have a standard? I can't see why the piston rings are different either, I don't understand.

I don't know for sure what the 103 pre 2006 and other 103 is, I know if you have a 1999 up till they made them 96cid, you could make them 103's by replacing the flywheels, cylinders, pistons. The later engines that are 96cid to date already have the flywheels in them so all thats needed are the cylinders, pistons. If you bought the correct pistons and big bore cylinders for your year they should fit right on, if there's something not right it's probley not correct or the wrong part. It does sound that the Dealer who's doing the work is maybe trying to sell work not needed, I would check the ring end gap, but haven't found any that have been to bad out of the box. If your building some drag bike maybe the extra work would be needed then. I'm not sure why he would need torque plates unless they are boring you cylinders, he maybe using them to fit the rings, but it shouldn't take hours to do, maybe two hours is hours, can't say

[alexlivetoride]

I heard the 95ci and 103ci use same cylinder, due to different crank stroke, the shorter crank stroke you convert a TC88 to 95ci. On the other hand the longer crank stroke on a TC96 will be converted to 103. Correct me if I am wrong.
I will talk to the shop foreman tomorrow, I need a good explanation. I would measure the ring gaps to confirm that, I doubt they are wrong. The stealer would do anything to suck my wallet dry

Originally Posted by werdna65

I don't know for sure what the 103 pre 2006 and other 103 is, I know if you have a 1999 up till they made them 96cid, you could make them 103's by replacing the flywheels, cylinders, pistons. The later engines that are 96cid to date already have the flywheels in them so all thats needed are the cylinders, pistons. If you bought the correct pistons and big bore cylinders for your year they should fit right on, if there's something not right it's probley not correct or the wrong part. It does sound that the Dealer who's doing the work is maybe trying to sell work not needed, I would check the ring end gap, but haven't found any that have been to bad out of the box. If your building some drag bike maybe the extra work would be needed then. I'm not sure why he would need torque plates unless they are boring you cylinders, he maybe using them to fit the rings, but it shouldn't take hours to do, maybe two hours is hours, can't say

[werdna65]

Originally Posted by alexlivetoride

I heard the 95ci and 103ci use same cylinder, due to different crank stroke, the shorter crank stroke you convert a TC88 to 95ci. On the other hand the longer crank stroke on a TC96 will be converted to 103. Correct me if I am wrong.
I will talk to the shop foreman tomorrow, I need a good explanation. I would measure the ring gaps to confirm that, I doubt they are wrong. The stealer would do anything to suck my wallet dry

You are correct, a 88 will go to 95. a 96 to 103 both by just using the same big bore cylinders but different pistons for the years. The 88-95 can be made 103 with the stroker flywheels, basicly the same flywheels that are in the 96 cid motors. ring gaps are to be checked to set the end gap of the rings and will not tell if they are 8,95,96 or 103 pistons, you would need to measure the bore to find that, 3 7/8 is the big bore 95/ 103 cylinders. only thing different with the pistons are the pin hole measurement, 103 pistons the pin is higher to the top of the piston, the bottom ring lands are part way in the pin hole, still really don't know the other side of whats being done or why, but still looks like extra work, cost maybe.

[werdna65]

Also if the rings are bigger than the pistons they are probley boxed wrong, he could file them to fit or you would have to get the correct rings for the pistons. again you are back to how you are going to use it, drag, riding, stop light to stop light runs. drag/ hard riding have him fit them, just riding get the correct rings and save the cost.

[alexlivetoride]

Thanks again! When ppl talk about hand matched rings, they do mean filing the ring gap to get proper clearance, am I right? I am new this game lol If the dealer said it can't be done, I might just return them, bore out my seasoned jugs and go fuelmoto 107, I want it done now just because of warranty short block replacement, save labor that's all.

Originally Posted by werdna65

Also if the rings are bigger than the pistons they are probley boxed wrong, he could file them to fit or you would have to get the correct rings for the pistons. again you are back to how you are going to use it, drag, riding, stop light to stop light runs. drag/ hard riding have him fit them, just riding get the correct rings and save the cost.

[guydoc77]

Originally Posted by Jeffytune

There are two 103 engines, the pre 2006 engine and the post 2007 engine. The difference is the stroke of the engine, as the 96 is a stroker engine and used shorter pistons. (Higher wrist pin)

I would best that is the issue.

I think the actual stroke is the same: 4.375" regardless of what year. And the 103" has 4.375" stroke. For that matter, so does the 96".
Not sure about rod length though. May have changed in '07. Don't know.
To the OP's question: rings don't match the cylinders? I agree. WTF does that mean?

I'm assuming you have a 96" and want to go to a 103". All that's required to do that are:
1)increased bore cylinders (96" are 3.75" bore and a 103" is 3.875" bore)
2)increased diameter pistons (to fit the larger bore), and
3)rings for those pistons.

Pin height is the same since the stroke and rod length don't change, assuming retention of the stock bottom end. I really have no idea what the guy is telling you with regards to the rings don't fit the cylinders.

[strokerjlk]

Originally Posted by alexlivetoride

Thanks again! When ppl talk about hand matched rings, they do mean filing the ring gap to get proper clearance, am I right? I am new this game lol If the dealer said it can't be done, I might just return them, bore out my seasoned jugs and go fuelmoto 107, I want it done now just because of warranty short block replacement, save labor that's all.

You could do that
But something don't add up. There is no prep work .
Even when you buy the pistons and bore yourself , the instructions tell you what to bore the cylinders for their pistons. Rings could be a little tight if file fitting . But every one I ever did was in spec. When checked . Sounds like .010 over pistons and stock bore cylinders

[alexlivetoride]

I have talked to the shop foreman today, this is what he said.
If I order the SE 103 stage 1 as a kit, the piston rings are matched to the cylinders. If I get them separately, the rings won't match. How can that be? I phoned Harley head office this morning, they said it doesn't matter if I order as a kit or separately, I still get the same pistons, rings and jugs. I know many machine shops bore out the cylinders on torque plate and hand match ring gaps, I don't think Harley does the same thing on every kit, don't you think? I ask the service writer to contact the head office, they said they did and it is impossible to install the cylinders without setting the rings, it will take 3 freaking hours, ridiculous! I can pay someone 3 hours to bore out 107 plus hand matched rings. They cannot warranty the job without the extra labor time, it sounds like they are not making money on the job and ask me for $$. I am exhausted!

Originally Posted by guydoc77

I really have no idea what the guy is telling you with regards to the rings don't fit the cylinders.

[strokerjlk]

Originally Posted by alexlivetoride

I have talked to the shop foreman today, this is what he said.
If I order the SE 103 stage 1 as a kit, the piston rings are matched to the cylinders. If I get them separately, the rings won't match. How can that be? I phoned Harley head office this morning, they said it doesn't matter if I order as a kit or separately, I still get the same pistons, rings and jugs. I know many machine shops bore out the cylinders on torque plate and hand match ring gaps, I don't think Harley does the same thing on every kit, don't you think? I ask the service writer to contact the head office, they said they did and it is impossible to install the cylinders without setting the rings, it will take 3 freaking hours, ridiculous! I can pay someone 3 hours to bore out 107 plus hand matched rings. They cannot warranty the job without the extra labor time, it sounds like they are not making money on the job and ask me for $$. I am exhausted!

Time to walk. Find someone else to put it together .
While the techs may be very competent , the service writer is either trying to pad the bill of he is a idiot

[guydoc77]

Originally Posted by strokerjlk

Time to walk. Find someone else to put it together .
While the techs may be very competent , the service writer is either trying to pad the bill of he is a idiot

Something's rotten in Denmark for sure.

[alexlivetoride]

Well, the oil pump went a month ago, it is under 7yrs ext warranty. They are changing the short block no kiddn', I can't just walk away, have to deal with it till the motor runs. I will file a complaint to Harley head office for sure. Dishonest dealer!

[strokerjlk]

Originally Posted by alexlivetoride

Well, the oil pump went a month ago, it is under 7yrs ext warranty. They are changing the short block no kiddn', I can't just walk away, have to deal with it till the motor runs. I will file a complaint to Harley head office for sure. Dishonest dealer!

You know it's wrong what they are doing, but the factory screws them so bad on warranty work hrs, it's causes these scenarios
Good luck . Your still looking at a decent deal