Help any suggestions please

[Tnbrit]

I have an 07FXD with 10Kmiles,bike is more or less standard,XIED's & Fatbob Exhaust.
Most of the time the bike runs with a mid rev range,Vibration or Harshness,difficult to describe but it just feels rough at steady Cruising speeds,it happens in every gear & is Rev related,it dissapears at higher revs in every gear,(don't have a Rev counter but e.g.85mph+in sixth gear it goes smooth).
The real killer is that occasionally the vibration(whatever it is)dissapears & the bike runs smooth once off tickover like a Dyna should.
This is completley random & it's driving me nuts.
The bikes been into the Dealer several times,they've fitted a new front Motor Mount(no difference)& recently after discussions with the regional Harley rep they checked all alignment procedures & torque settings.The bike is exactly the same.
The G.M.agrees the bike has this roughness,but says some Dynas are smoother than others,but 09's are smoother.
This is not a dealer slag off(i think they've done their best)
I don't know if this is Frame or Engine based,but if there any suggestions i'd really appreciate it.
Cheers,Graham.

[gamellir]

My 2009 vibrates more than it should. Jackhammer type vibration at lower rpms and buzzing at higher. Been to dealer, re-set mounts. If I am driving 45 I get an annoying jackhamer type vibration unless I keep the bike in 3rd gear. At 55 I have to keep bike in 4th gear. It is really bad if engine is loaded going up a hill. Problem with the lower gears and higher rpm is you don't get that nice relaxed type of cruise you would expect from a big V Twin. The rpm range you can ride this bike comfortably is very small. Pain in the neck if I am riding with a group. The speed they are riding at never matches the smooth spots on the bike.
Bike handles great. What a nice ride it would be without the vibration.
My 2005 Sporty was a smoother ride.
I am just trying to ignore the vibration and ride the bike but am starting to loose desire to ride the bike.
Wish I kept my sporty.

Ron
2009 FXDC

[eodmachine]

it is a little bit of both. the dyna is a lot rougher with the vibration at the lower rpms but smoothes out at higher. it is the way that the engine is balanced, and the engine is mounted. they dont have the same type of engine mount that the soft tail family has. if you get some after market grips it isnt too bad.

[xtractor]

Check your belt for proper alinement and tightness, and tires. Sometimes the most obvious is over looked, even at dealership.

[claydbal]

check crank runout. if it is less than .004 (not HD spec of .014) then problem is your tune.

my dyna has always been smooth down to 2200 rpm, but i dont lug it there. and my motor has been through several build configurations.

[Tnbrit]

Originally Posted by gamellir

My 2009 vibrates more than it should. Jackhammer type vibration at lower rpms and buzzing at higher. Been to dealer, re-set mounts. If I am driving 45 I get an annoying jackhamer type vibration unless I keep the bike in 3rd gear. At 55 I have to keep bike in 4th gear. It is really bad if engine is loaded going up a hill. Problem with the lower gears and higher rpm is you don't get that nice relaxed type of cruise you would expect from a big V Twin. The rpm range you can ride this bike comfortably is very small. Pain in the neck if I am riding with a group. The speed they are riding at never matches the smooth spots on the bike.
Bike handles great. What a nice ride it would be without the vibration.
My 2005 Sporty was a smoother ride.
I am just trying to ignore the vibration and ride the bike but am starting to loose desire to ride the bike.
Wish I kept my sporty.

Ron
2009 FXDC

Ron,you describe my bike perfectly

Originally Posted by eodmachine

it is a little bit of both. the dyna is a lot rougher with the vibration at the lower rpms but smoothes out at higher. it is the way that the engine is balanced, and the engine is mounted. they dont have the same type of engine mount that the soft tail family has. if you get some after market grips it isnt too bad.

Eod,if my Dyna rode like the demo I rode before buying it wouldn't be a problem.

Originally Posted by xtractor

Check your belt for proper alinement and tightness, and tires. Sometimes the most obvious is over looked, even at dealership.

xtractor,the alignments have just been done by the main dealer with the Harley reps blessing,I trust them but there's only so much they can do.Tyres seem to be ok,new rear & front no uneven wear.

Originally Posted by claydbal

check crank runout. if it is less than .004 (not HD spec of .014) then problem is your tune.

my dyna has always been smooth down to 2200 rpm, but i dont lug it there. and my motor has been through several build configurations.

claydbal,this where it gets tricky,I feel it could be movement somewhere crank/comp etc,might account for the different vib feels at different times.Here's my problem i'm getting to the stage where i need a good/reliable indie in the Mid Tn.area to do the investigation work for me,cause all my time with the bike is Riding,with it being in Tn.& me in England,maybe another post for recommendations etc.If anyone knows one let me know.

Thanks,Guys.I love riding this bike,its for me,but I need to find what the hell the problem is.

Graham.

[stupidglide]

Ok, I'm no expert, but I've built a fair few motors in my time, so here goes. I own an '09 FXD, and also experience vibrations at odd times, and rpm's. As a result of that observation, I've related it to a harmonic vibration, that cannot be entirely absorbed by the isolastic engine mounting system, that is currently employed. Taking time to explore that source, it comes down to overall engine balance, or fuel and timing curves (giving the engine an uneven combustion pattern, I.E. sometimes having a bigger 'bang' than others) or a combination of both. Finding out and exploring balance ratios of the rotating assembly, will help you find if it ia a strictly mechanical issue. For instance; A standard balance ratio of a 750 Triumph Bonneville is 35 to 40%. If when re-building the engine you were to bump that up to about 60 to 65%, and select your final gearing with a modicum of care with respect to that engines powerband, you would not only have a smoother ride, but a faster, quicker AND more dependable one as well. I know this from personal experience. Now if the vibration is contributed to by fuel curve and timing issues, there are only a few available ways to address those issues. In the case of my FXD, the only choice I have is to purchase one of the many available stand alone engine management systems, and re-program the fuel and ignition curves to better suit my engine, and its applied uses, such as touring, drag racing (sorry, you're British, so sprints, or 'pure' racing) etc. Any of these things will help far more than you know, the combination of these things, used properly, will probably solve most, if not all, of your issues, and with respect to gearing, I'm quite sure that can easily be addressed too. Now for the 'band aids', and I'm probably gonna get some flak about these, but oh well. There are mutitudes of products out there to help isolate the rider from vibration transfer, as through the bars, footpegs, seat, etc. The application of any or all of these will help make your ride more pleasant, but do not address the root of the problem at all, and we all know that "if the cut is big enough, bits of guaze and tape ain't gonna stop you from bleedin' to death, mate!". So I'd venture to say that this may take a fair bit of research on your part, and may very well take some in depth mechanical work, but in my opinion, will be well worth the effort. Just take a ONE STEP AT A TIME approach. I cannot over-emphasize that point! If you try 2 or 3 'fixes' at once, you will never figure out what the original culprit was in the first place! Good luck to you, and I'd love to hear back if your problem gets figured out, and as I am on the same path, as I upgrade and change my own bike, I'll post the results so we can all benefit.

[hbmc]

I think you are on to something there... Now just use paragraph breaks with your astute observation so we can all read it.

[stupidglide]

Originally Posted by hbmc

I think you are on to something there... Now just use paragraph breaks with your astute observation so we can all read it.

Jeez. Everyone is a critic
Seriously though, thanks for the tip. I'll try harder in the future.

[claydbal]

us illiterate scooter riders have our days.

good post stupid! sorry dude, couldnt resist, im too lazy to write the whole name.

[Shriner Jim]

I can tell what my rpm is without looking at the tach. When it hits 3K, I feel it all over. I'm not a hot rodder and won't ride it hard enough to tell if it smooths out an a very high rpm. Mine is a '07 and is smooth as glass up to 3K. I also ride a FLHTCU and prefer the ride of the the FXDC, imagine that.
Jim

[xtractor]

claydbal
check crank runout. if it is less than .004 (not HD spec of .014) then problem is your tune.
my dyna has always been smooth down to 2200 rpm, but i dont lug it there. and my motor has been through several build configurations.
__________________

A crank runout of .004 or even .014 will not cause a intermittent vibration. Don't allow yourself to become freaked out because of an occasional or intermittent vibration, and there is no need to go through several build configuations inorder to fix it, it's a Harley. lol

But as already said there are any number of basic things that will cause abnormal vibrations besides something as potentially catastropic as a sliped crank, bearing failure and excessive runout. just sayin





__________________

[Tnbrit]

Guys,Thanks.Some good info.

Stupidglide,great post,sounds like you've really given it some thought,good theorising & makes sense.

Xtractor,once again thanks,believe me i'm not looking for or want crank problems,just looking for a solution,I thought of mechanical issues first because the vib comes & goes,but Stupidglides(seems like an insult he's obviously not) theory(like all good theories)makes sense.

By the way the Bike runs rougher like 85% of the time,only smooth now & again.

I don't know anything about tuning or programming,can anyone point me to a place or point to start from.

HBMC,are the paragraphs ok

Thanks Graham.

[stupidglide]

Originally Posted by Tnbrit

Guys,Thanks.Some good info.
I don't know anything about tuning or programming,can anyone point me to a place or point to start from.

Tnbrit, the best advice I can give you at this point is as follows:

#1. Only change one thing at a time, and be sure to write down every tidbit of info you can think of, pertaining to your problem, and whether the change made it better, or worse. I cannot over emphasise the importance of this. good record keeping will prevent you from 'getting lost' in the process, and will allow you to return to original settings, should a change fail to do what you were trying to acheive.

#2. The only ECU (AKA tuner, reprogrammer, stand alone engine management system) that I have done any extensive research on, is the Thundermax, from an outfit called Zippers. I have looked at numerous others, and have always found them lacking in one area or another. The Thundermax unit requires the use of a laptop, but is essentially a "plug and play" system, and includes all of the tuning parameters you might require, to get your engine completely dialed in. Zippers, so far anyway, have seemed to be eager and willing to give customers the tech support you are looking for, and several of my friends have used it with amazing success. My local private shop (who is usually booked out 3 to 4 months) swears by it, and uses it on 3 of his own bikes. That alone should tell you something.
Now that said, I am in no way saying that there are not systems out there, that will solve your problems in a fine fashion, just that that is the one I'm going to use, as it applies most closely to what my needs are.

#3. Don't be afraid to dive into it. It only requires a bit of research (which you have wisely started here) and a 'can do' attitude. I'm quite sure, that between the forums I've seen here, and all of the information that is available from the manufacturers, and the plethora of knowledge accessible to us all on the web, you should be able to solve your issues MORE than to your satisfaction.

#4. FACTS, FACTS, FACTS! NOT opinions! Subjective results are NOT what you are looking for. This is only a machine you are working on, not brain surgery, so it will respond one way or the other, to anything you do to it, whether that be positive or negative.

#5. Be patient. "Patience is a virtue, therefore you must be a virtuoso in patience, to enjoy the benefits of it"

#6. Now, all that said, do NOT discount what Claydbal said! He is absolutely correct, that the crank runout may very well be the source of your issue! Get it checked out ASAP, BEFORE you try anything else. When tuning any engine, it is critical to ensure that all of the components are functioning properly, and well within design parameters. Short version, "One cannot make chicken soup, from chicken POOP". ;-)
Good luck to you, and I would love to hear the results of your trials and tribulations on this, so far vexing, and somewhat irritating problem. When I get mine dialed in, you can be sure to see it posted in the Dyna forum, as I am a big fan of the 'share the wealth' concept.

[Tnbrit]

Thanks,SG.I'll look into the Thundermax,i know zilch about this stuff but i'm not back in the States for awhile so I can read up.Wish I could find a good Tuner/Technician in the Nashville area,but i've come up with none so far.
Cheers,Brit.