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Old 04-20-2009, 06:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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AR 15 add ons, on a budget

I would like to put on a cheaper scope on my Bushmaster. What do I really need in a scope? Are the cheap ones really a waste of money, should I save up for a good one? If so, what is good, and how much.

How much is an "acceptable" scope, for range duty, 100 yrds?

Also, what type of bipod should I get?



Thanks for the info. All is appreciated, cause I am really green at this stuff. I went to AR15.com, but I think I can afford thier stuff, some of those guys have some serious hardware.
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Tony,

My advice to you would be to shoot the heck out of it and learn to use the Iron Sights....KISS and know how to hit the target.

Once you learn the platform and still want to add optics then it will depend on which upper you have, A2 with Carry Handle or A3 Flat Top with Rail.

A2 scope mount mounted to the carry handle will leave you will out any sort of check weld for consistant shot placement.

Any A2 carry Handle scope Mount in the $15-30.00 range will be more than likely Pac Rim junk and loosen up after a few rounds.

My suggestion would be an ARM #39-A2 Goose Neck Mount and some sort of Reflex Optical sight on the forward rail.

For an A3 Flat Top Upper an ARMS #5 Base with Rings of your choosing or ARMS QD Rings of the right height.

Note, when mounting a scope don't worry about the front sight post. Any scope above 4X will not focus that close so the front post for all intent purposes will be invisable.

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Old 04-21-2009, 06:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
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you get what you pay for in a scope, it all depends on your needs.
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:18 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Karsten - What distance should an average to better than average shooter expect to get with AR15 sights after enough practice, etc? I'm guessing out to 300 yds.
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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FXDRYDR is reading this now saying WTF is this? FXDRYDR is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Easily out to 300 yards. Chedck into the Army Small Marksmanship training program at Camp Perry. Costs about $35 and you get a day of great rtaining. They take newbs and have them in the black at 300 yards in one day.
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
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head of lettuce at 100 yards or head of state at 600 yards?
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Old 04-21-2009, 05:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The M16A2 is pretty much the same as civilian AR15. This weapon in good on iron sites to 300m a little more than 300 yrds. We used red dot type scopes for close-quarters, fast point of aim/point of impact shooting. I personaly would not mount a scope on a A2 with the hand rail. Just my personal experience, pick up an army training manual, buy more ammo and just pratice.
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:12 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ammo is the key word.
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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AR-15 or M-4 either can range a man size target effectively out to 500 meters with Iron Sights. there are several optic options for these platforms depending on what you are trying to achieve. I personally prefer the EOTECH holosight works well for me and it is easy to transition from CQM to Ranged shots however it offers no magnification. Trijicon ACOG (Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight) work rather well and you can get them in 4x or 6x magnification, they have a built in BDC for the 5.56 NATO round so once you get it dialed in at 100m you are good to 600m. Most of my experience is military based so I am kind of bias with the optics that we use, but the bottom line is it is shooter preference you have to decide what is going to work best for what you are trying to accomplish.
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
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No one in my unit used an ACOG on there M16/M4. they where mounted to the 240B machine gun. I personal would not try to hit my target in combat more than 300M. I like to know what I hitting. 600M would be pushing a 5.56 to the limits. From 25-300M the trajectory is flat, but the lite round falls off after 300M. U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory at Aberdeen Proving Ground,
Maryland.
5.56 NATO Ball Ammunition Ballistic Comparison
based on Aberdeen Proving Ground Data
velocity (fps) trajectory (in.) drop (inches) drift (inches)*
range M193 M855 M193 M855 M193 M855 M193 M855
(meters)
0 3,200 3,100 -2.5 -2.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
100 2,774 2,751 +2.8 +4.4 -2.2 -2.3 1.3 1.1
200 2,374 2,420 +2.7 +5.8 -9.9 -10.2 5.8 4.9
300 2,012 2,115 -4.9 0.0 -25.1 -25.3 14.2 11.8
400 1,680 1,833 -23.0 -15.0 -50.8 -49.5 27.6 22.4
500 1,373 1,569 -56.2 -42.9 -91.6 -86.7 47.5 38.0
600 1,106 1,323 -113.1 -88.2 -156.1 -141.3 76.4 59.5
700 995 1,106 -206.8 -156.1 -257.3 -220.9 113.5 88.4
800 927 1,010 -339.9 -267.7 -398.0 -339.2 156.1 124.9
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
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This is great information. Just want to confirm on the apertures. Generally the unmarked smaller aperture is for 300M+ and the larger aperture is for 200M and down?
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:28 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FXDRYDR View Post
Easily out to 300 yards. Chedck into the Army Small Marksmanship training program at Camp Perry. Costs about $35 and you get a day of great rtaining. They take newbs and have them in the black at 300 yards in one day.

How can you even see a target at 300 yards? Really? I have 20/20 vision, but looking thru safety glasses and then thru the iron sights, just at 100 yards, my target is a dot.
How big in inches should the bulls eye target be for 100/200/300 yards? Maybe thats my issue?

Thanks
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc ock View Post
No one in my unit used an ACOG on there M16/M4. they where mounted to the 240B machine gun. I personal would not try to hit my target in combat more than 300M. I like to know what I hitting. 600M would be pushing a 5.56 to the limits. From 25-300M the trajectory is flat, but the lite round falls off after 300M. U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory at Aberdeen Proving Ground,
Maryland.
5.56 NATO Ball Ammunition Ballistic Comparison
based on Aberdeen Proving Ground Data
velocity (fps) trajectory (in.) drop (inches) drift (inches)*
range M193 M855 M193 M855 M193 M855 M193 M855
(meters)
0 3,200 3,100 -2.5 -2.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
100 2,774 2,751 +2.8 +4.4 -2.2 -2.3 1.3 1.1
200 2,374 2,420 +2.7 +5.8 -9.9 -10.2 5.8 4.9
300 2,012 2,115 -4.9 0.0 -25.1 -25.3 14.2 11.8
400 1,680 1,833 -23.0 -15.0 -50.8 -49.5 27.6 22.4
500 1,373 1,569 -56.2 -42.9 -91.6 -86.7 47.5 38.0
600 1,106 1,323 -113.1 -88.2 -156.1 -141.3 76.4 59.5
700 995 1,106 -206.8 -156.1 -257.3 -220.9 113.5 88.4
800 927 1,010 -339.9 -267.7 -398.0 -339.2 156.1 124.9
the trajectory is actually not flat between 25-300 meters that just happens to be at what ranges the round crosses the same plane. Max ord for the 5.56 NATO is about 4 - 6 inches the main cause for such a big gap is b/c the Army in not really good at getting the exact charge right in every round. ACOG does make a optic with a BDC for the 7.62 rnd but the ones we have in the army inventory are BDC for 5.56 so you would be wasting your time to mount it on a 240.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyJ View Post
How can you even see a target at 300 yards? Really? I have 20/20 vision, but looking thru safety glasses and then thru the iron sights, just at 100 yards, my target is a dot.
How big in inches should the bulls eye target be for 100/200/300 yards? Maybe thats my issue?

Thanks
This target is set at 25m and is to simulate up to 300m. A hit in the black is good.
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thum...ies_Target.jpg
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Maximum effective range on individual\point targets is 550m
Area targets 800m
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