fxrs gearing

[hardluk1]

sdlowrider, can't wait to hear how you like the change.

[ClassicRider]

Does that also mean the current trannies are pointless. The dealers have been installing 6 speeds in early tc's for years. So tell harley it was pointless.

without getting too far off topic here since this is an "FXR" thread.....they are pretty pointless on the 07 touring bikes.....the gearing on those bikes aren't that great either....I have read where guys are pretty much complaining bout them.....but what's the point of shifting the conversation away from the "FXR" platform, laughing I am not trying to discuss what's good for all of the HD line I am trying to keep the conversation focused on only the "FXR" platform bikes....

Yes i know ,you probably ride 80 ,and don't mind turn a motor that many rpm's, fill up to fill up. Did you also run your truck or car back in the 60's or 70's over 3000 rpm on the interstate regularly. You can only screw with gearing so much before you loss the advantage that added power can gave you.

Actually to tell you the truth.....we really should be keeping our conversations focused on FXR's but to address your comments above....I "actually" did keep my Porsche going down the road at 3,000 rpms or greater....and of course I am talking about an "air cooled" Porsche.....and also I enjoy going down the highway at 55-65 just like Homesick mentioned above who mentioned that he does as well, but I must admit when going at 55-65 I am only in 4th gear on my FXR2, as what I have been saying all along is that the 5th gear on my FXR2 functions perfectly as an "overdrive" gear which is what the "engineers" designed when they presented the 2.925 final gearing in this model. And once again just to keep everything in context, this would support my suggestion that anyone owning a "later" FXR that they too might "enjoy" the "higher" gearing of say.....3.037 which they can arrive at as stated above in this thread. Hardluk1 you are doing a great job of supporting my position, that the 6th gear is not needed.....As we all know the best things we can do with these motors is to keep them from "lugging" and how one defines that has certainly been debated over the years.....suffice it to say when one finds themselves on the highway running their bike at 2900 rpm and decide they need to pass.....they can do so by either remaining in the same gear, or perhaps shifting down to the next or shifting up to the next after reaching say 4000......<~~~this all is common sense of course, but to want to throttle from a position of 2400-2600 rpms and to roll on throttle will create what's really hard on the engine....

".........just changeing the rear pulley does wake up these bikes CHEAP. and works great for some at lower rpm's........"
Looks at you......confused.....shaking my head.....ummmm that's what I have been saying for the last few posts.....ummm ok....well I agree with this statement.....

This is not about your years ,it's about eary fxr's ,and for one of us to change both primary gears and chain and most likely something clutch related to come up with 2.925 ratio

Looks at you again, confused....for FXR's of 1989 - 1993 with 3.37 gearing and perhaps back to 1985, ANYONE with this YEAR bike CAN NOT GET TO 2.925 gearing.....without spending HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY....because of the tranny situation that the primary is mating up to.....which would be pointless to spend that much money to do so.....SO what I HAVE been suggesting....is that people leave their "trannies" alone, as for the "clutches" I am unsure of whether they will support this change or not.....but perhaps a "clutch" upgrade is needed independent of changing gearing.....I dunno since I don't own one, BUTTTTTTT what I do know is, regardless of the "clutch" and whether it should be upgraded or not, that one ONLY needs to modify their tranny gear from 32 toot up to a 33 Tooth transmission Pulley and modifying their Rear wheel Sprocket from the "OEM" 70 Tooth and changing it to a 65 Tooth, plus perhaps a belt change from a 139 Tooth Belt to a 133 Tooth belt but on the matter of the belt I don't know the answer to that specifically yet.....but should know soon....so if one changes their trannie pulley to 33 Tooth and their Rear Wheel Sprocket down to a 65 tooth they can ACHIEVE a 3.037 gearing......which as I have said above is so so so so close to 2.925. Now whether someone is motivated to do this or not, I have no "vested" interest in such a discussion.....but "sdlowrider" apparently is feeling that this is the route he is selecting....lol and he started the post....because he owns a 1993 FXR that he finds the 3.37 gearing too low....thus his motivation to go higher ie: 3.037. He may not realize by changing his Tranny Pulley from 32 up to a 33 tooth and changing his Rear Wheel Sprocket from a 70 Tooth down to a 65 Tooth, along with a "potential" reduction of his rear drive belt from a 139 tooth up to a 133 Tooth belt that he is changing his gearing from 3.37 to 3.037 but that's what he is doing as would anyone else working with a 1993 FXR platformed bike.....

People who ride softails are baaaaaaaaaad people <smirk> ok, I will save you the trouble... <cute> lol

There are perhaps 4 great models as far as I am concerned for HD,

1) FXR
2) Road King/Road King Classic or a road king platformed bike...
3) Heritage Softail Classic
4) Deluxe or the Moo Cow Bike....lol

Everything else is "baaaaaaaaaad"............

Laughing

Regards,

"Classic"

[sdlowrider]

OH YEAH! Not an incredible change but definitley a noticable one.. lost a few hundred rpm's all the way around, still plenty enough snot from the stoplight and much more pleasant to ride! The stock belt is a touch long but works well until I tear it down this winter. I would positively recommend this to anyone with the same basic scooter as mine. Perhaps I ought to mention also my last big twin was a 1971 Electra-Glide , so my knowledge of the new EVO motor is limited, it just seemed to me that it was working to hard (read : spinnin too fast) for what I want to do with it.

[ClassicRider]

sdlowrider~~~ 08-04-2008 <original statement that started this post>:

I have a basically stock 1993 fxrs conv. and HATE the stock gearing. I recently got a 65 tooth rear pully and want to put it on the bike... who had done this and did you have to change the belt length, if so what size did u go to?


sdlowrider~~ Stated 08-14-08:

OH YEAH! Not an incredible change but definitley a noticable one.. lost a few hundred rpm's all the way around, still plenty enough snot from the stoplight and much more pleasant to ride!

Sometimes I have found myself reading threads that were written way before I discover them or have a chance to participate thus basically reading them is the only viable option only to realize that the "outcome" was never precisely provided....and sometimes people are looking for "precise" so they can feel the confidence to go in one direction or another....sometimes people are looking for a "pattern" to help them to choose their eventual direction, that's why I am motivated to bring this discussion at least from your perspective to a "precise" conclusion.

To begin with your bike is "basically" a stock 1993 FXRS-CONV Low Rider Convertible model.

In 1993 the "stock" gearing as provided by the Factory was the following:
1) Compensating Sprocket 24 Tooth
2) Clutch Shell Basket W/ Ring Gear 37 Tooth
3) Transmission Pulley 32 Tooth
4) Rear Wheel Sprocket 70 Tooth
5) Rear Belt Drive 139 Tooth

what some people may not realize is that with a 1993 FXR model bike, one is limited by their bike's parts and how they go together....as what will work in a 1994 or a 1999 FXR will not work in a 1993 FXR model bike because of some additional changes dealing with what's coming in from the clutch as well as potential "starter" issues if one were to attempt to make "wholesale" changes with the inner workings of their primary.....research has revealed that one can not change the gearing inside the "primary" ie: the compensating sprocket and the clutch shell basket due to the pin count on the primary chain without experiencing financial obstacles, so it only makes sense to retain the 24T compensating sprocket and 37T clutch basket. Changing the secondary ratio ie: the transmission pulley and the rear wheel sprocket seems to be the only option, economically.

Thus you leave alone the "workings" of the inner primary ie: compensating sprocket, clutch shell basket & ring gear......and you focus on modifying the "secondary drive" ie:
1) Transmission Pulley which is a 32 Tooth and increase it to a 33 Tooth,

[Question 1:
What manufactuerer and model number and how much did you spend for the 33 Tooth Transmission Pulley???]

2) Rear Wheel Sprocket from a 70 Tooth and reducing it to a 65 Tooth

[Question 2:
What make, model, part# of the sprocket you used and how much $$???]

3) Currently you are working with your "OEM" ie: Stock sized Secondary/Rear Belt which is a 139 Tooth and it seems to be working but you state you may change it later this winter....[and as soon as someone reports back to me which size and model number they decided upon for their modfication that they are doing which is just like this one when it comes to the "final gearing" I will report it here so it becomes helpful information later on]

While I read above that you state it's not an "incredible change but a noticble one", I would say that loosing a 200 RPM's at highway speed is indeed a "incredible difference" and actually as you increase speed that margin becomes bigger.....ie: from 200 RPM's sometimes up to 350 RPM's fairly quickly.....but as we all realize all of this is quite "subjective" but from a "mechanical" point of view it is substantial....It's nearly a 7% difference which is fairly substantial..... AND....

You make a very important comment here.....that you didn't feel any "seat of the pants" loss of "torque" or "power" by going to higher gearing in the lower end of the torque rangee.....and this of course speaks to what I have been attempting to articulate thoughout my comments....the FXR platform is a fairly light "touring crusier" styled bike....and with a "mild" cam to bring an evo alive (which is a different discussion for a different thread) just a bit, I would 100% agree that moving your gearing slightly higher from 3.37 which is "OEM" Factory Stock to 3.037 which is higher isn't so high that you suffer in the lower ranges of the power and torque curves....in fact it's quite the opposite.....your not constantly shifting because you are running out of the gears per say.....Thus sdlowrider, your experience is substantiated everytime one rides the 1999 FXR2. It's important to this discussion that the "confines" of what I am speaking about fit precisely the "characteristics" of an FXR.


The stock belt is a touch long but works well until I tear it down this winter. I would positively recommend this to anyone with the same basic scooter as mine. ......it just seemed to me that it was working to hard (read : spinnin too fast) for what I want to do with it.

Your answer reflects what my suggestions have been all along, if one can modify their engine because of what they feel is a lack of performance and do so "inexpensively" then why not make that change, all you have done in the long run....is make your "5th" gear your "overdrive" gear essentially for this bike....

As I first posted, here is a great link dealing also with this same model of bike and same year, only difference is the owner built up his engine, it's the same thread I posted above but I thought I would simply repost it:

http://groups.msn.com/HarleyTechTalk...lete=0&CDir=-2

sdlowrider,

Congratulations I am glad it's working for you........

Regards,

"Classic"

[sdlowrider]

The 65t pulley was purchased on E-Bay for $37.00 and is a factory unit from a softail of some sort?....casting number 40315-94 oem item...

[ClassicRider]

sdlowrider,

Thanks for the info on the rear wheel sprocket........



and what about the transmission pulley:


[Question 1:
What manufactuerer and model number and how much did you spend for the 33 Tooth Transmission Pulley???]

Also what would you say your total investment to make these changes have cost you thus far, did you do the labor or have a shop do it?

Regards,

"Classic"

[sdlowrider]

I never changed the trans pulley. I did the swap myself but I did buy a lift from my local Checker Auto and that cost me $80.00.

[ClassicRider]

sdlowrider~~~

ahhhhh geeeeeez lol, SO WAIT A MINUTE here....lol:

so you left your comp sprocket @ 24 tooth
so you left your clutch shell basket and ring gear @ 37 Tooth
so you left your TRANSMISSION PULLEY @ 32 TOOTH ??????????
so you MODIFIED YOUR Rear Wheel Sprocket from 70 Tooth DOWN to 65 TOOTH

and finally you are running your secondary drive with the original 139 Tooth rear belt.

If the above is correct LOL NO WONDER YOU MADE THE STATEMENT "......OH YEAH! Not an incredible change....." ......because you didn't.....I thought you were going to put on a 33 Tooth Transmission Pulley, AND IF YOU HAD you would have noticed much MORE difference.....

I went back and reread where I became confused....a couple of posts back you said you were changing your rear "pulley" to 65 Teeth, somehow in my mind the "word" "pulley" automatically is associated to mean "transmission pulley" not the rear wheel sprocket..... LOL I need to keep our terms "straight" here.....so that's why I thought you were changing both of your secondary gears ie: transmission pulley and the rear wheel sprocket.... duh.....

I see what you did now, and essentially what you accomplished is changing your final gearing from your "OEM" set up of 3.37 and making it NOW 3.131 gearing which would be very similar to the two 1994 FXR models:

1994 FXRS Super Glide (silver engine)
1994 FXLR Low Rider Custom (wrinkle black with chrome)

these two models came from the factory with 3.15 final gearing.

Your gearing with 3.131 would be aprx:

1st = 10.052
2nd = 6.920
3rd = 4.916
4th = 3.851
5th = 3.131

Well folks.....for those of you reading this months down the road....had he also changed the Transmission Pulley from 32 Tooth and increased it by 1 tooth up to a 33 Tooth Transmission Pulley his final gearing would have been 3.037.


".........The stock belt is a touch long but works well until I tear it down this winter. I would positively recommend this to anyone with the same basic scooter as mine. ......it just seemed to me that it was working to hard (read : spinnin too fast) for what I want to do with it......"

I WANT TO KNOW how in the heck you dropped your REAR WHEEL SPROCKET down 5 TEETH and are SUCCESSFULLY running your "OEM" belt which is 139 Tooth????? I am thinking this seems a bit risky to me, maybe there is that much play to take up the slack created by the "extra" 5 teeth of the "OEM" belt.....seems like you perhaps have opened yourself up to "slipping" <~~~~I have no way of knowing right now if my logic is correct....I suppose if you have tightened everything up and it's "tight" then it's "tight" just makes sense that if you take out 5 teeth from your rear wheel sprocket you should also remove @ least 5 teeth from your belt as well. Did you ask someone professionally about this????? I think I would check that out carefully, UNLESS of course you have and were told this is fine, I haven't "played" that much with belt "lengths" to know precisely how much one can "play" with these.....

Not using a 33 Tooth Transmission Pulley vs using a 32 Tooth Transmission Pulley results in a approximately a 100 RPM increase for 3.131 final gearing vs 3.037 gearing across the board....


24T comp sprocket, 37T clutch shell basket & ring gear, 33T transmission pulley, 65T rear wheel sprocket = X RPMS (3.037)

24T comp sprocket, 37T clutch shell basket & ring gear, 32T transmission pulley, 65T rear wheel sprocket = X RPMS (3.037) + approx. 100 RPM's = Aprx. 3.131

Thus one could go back up to post #13 of this "thread" and review the "last column" for the 3.037 RPM's and add +100 RPMS and see where they would be across the RPM spectrum if so motivated or interested when using a 32 Tooth Transmission Pulley vs using a 33 Transmission Tooth Pulley.


Regards,

"Classic"

[TDuff]

sounds good , maybe in my bikes future

[sdlowrider]

55 M.P.H. = 2600 R.P.M. in 5th gear. The belt length question is a good one but setting the tension according to the factory manual left me with about 3/8th of an inch adjustment to spare.

[ClassicRider]

sdlowrider....

55 M.P.H. = 2600 R.P.M. in 5th gear.

I am not arguing but merely curious....there is no way you are pulling 2600 RPMs in 5th gear on your bike the way it's set up.....just no way.....either your speedo is off which it could be or you "may" have been in 4th gear.....

Like I said....I don't mean to sound forceful.....but someone reading this down the way might get confused....there is just no way your bike is doing 2600 rpms in 5th gear with your setup.....tacs have a tendency to be around 150-200 rpms off and of course the error of your speedo can step into play as well.....

anyway for what it is worth I just wanted to throw that out there.....something very different going on for you to get that reading......ie: 55 mph with 3.13 final gearing and showing you 2600 rpms in 5th gear.

MPH 4th gear
2.92 3.15 3.37 3.037

RPM RPM RPM RPM
50 2400 2550 2700 2500
55 2600 2800 3000 2700
60 2850 3050 3250 2950
65 3100 3300 3500 3200
70 3350 3550 3800 3450
75 3600 3800 4100 3700


MPH 5th gear
2.92 3.15 3.37 3.037

RPM RPM RPM RPM
50 ------ 2050 2200 2000
55 ------ 2300 2450 2200
60 2300 2500 2650 2400
65 2500 2700 2900 2600
70 2700 2900 3100 2800
75 2900 3100 3300 3000



so taking the formula as provided above you were actually doing aprx. (2200 RPMS + 100 RPMS = 2300 RPMS aprx) 2300 RPMS with your final gearing of 3.131 and here is my question...why would you be in 5th gear running 2300 RPMS in the first place?

My point is for 5th gear, I wouldn't even be in it with your gearing of 3.131 until a minimum of 70 mph, in part, this thread has been about the debate of a 6th gear for an FXR and how really the 5th gear is a "substantial" over drive gear anyway which when used appropriately works fantastic with very little need to spend the $ for a 6th gear set up.......

I don't like running my bike that low in the RPM spectrum....I would prefer to run my bike at 55 mph at 2900 rpms all day long in 4th gear as compared to running it at 55 mph in 5th gear at 2300 RPMS......hmmmmm, ok...I undertand that's what makes us all different, I get that.......As I have said earlier the sweet spot of FXR2, ie: where it seems happiest is with the RPM's outside of the 2200 - 2600 RPM level, the only time it sees this level is as it's being moved through acceleration through the gears....

Regards,

"Classic"

[sdlowrider]

Hey I'm not an engineer or anything like that, and being an old farm boy maybe I have just been flying by the seat of my pants with cars, trucks and motorcycles for close to 40 years now.... I suppose it all just comes down to this, I know what I like and for the dollar spent this was a great change for this motorcycle and the type of riding I like to do. I would definitley still recommend this to others with an fxrs for a quick/ cheap fix on what I considered a gearing issue. Oh BTW I never liked the way my BMW 318i wound up either, but it was only 1800 cc's in a car so it had to be tight to make happy. LOL

[ClassicRider]

Hey I'm not an engineer or anything like that, and being an old farm boy maybe I have just been flying by the seat of my pants with cars, trucks and motorcycles for close to 40 years now....

Listen, I know where you are coming from and you are right, it is all about "seat of the pants"......I just thouught I should clarify what was being communicated...just so someone months from now doesn't get confused....and you are right in another way as well..."numbers" are "numbers" they only "tell" part of the story.......

I just wouldn't run an FXR in 5th gear at 55 MPH down the highway nor would I expect to pass someone and simply roll on the throttle without figuring some "lugging" being factored into the equation....which ultimately isn't good for the engine.....which if you think about it is why you were seeking the gearing change in the first place....you felt the engine running in to "high" of the RPM range because of the lower "OEM" gearing for your bike ie: 3.37 gearing, for your tastes....thus you tried to go to a slightly higher gearing....ie: seat of your pants "engineering" LOL. It always comes back to "seat of the pants" lol, which is true.

Regards,

"Classic"

[hardluk1]

You know ,not everyone is looking to run down the road rolled on the throttle . If i am just out for a ride with nothing special to do 55 mph at 2600, useing about the first 15% of the throttle is not lugging, it's called cruiseing.Most riders that own the older bikes know the difference between lugging and just put'n down the road. Newbe's are a different story.Mine runs the same rpm's and i have had my wife drive next to me on a 4 lane to check. The cable drive is small and not easy to read but there close enought to not piss over one or two mph at 55 or 60. If i like most want to pass on a two lane with all of 55 to 65 hp you down shift if ,if on a 4 lane , roll on and easy over. That also ain't lugging at 2600 plus.If you like to run at 4000 thats your thang ,most rides don't run at 3/4 of the rpm range avalable to them . Most all modern harley's make 75 % for there tq by 2500 rpms. The only thing you impress at is typeing words not real world knowledge apparently with out your history of the fxr. Post the thing one time and let people find what they want with out being told what they have done wrong by your standards and what harley designed so well acording to you with the last series. Jeesss. I change mine with a softail pulley from around early 90's and cost me less than 28 bucks shipped and no primary gears or the front pulley on the belt needed. Now if i could do that for as much ,maybe. You ride the way you want , and let other choise what they want ,without you there to impress .

[ClassicRider]

You know ,not everyone is looking to run down the road rolled on the throttle . If i am just out for a ride with nothing special to do 55 mph at 2600, useing about the first 15% of the throttle is not lugging,

hardluk1~~~~

do what you need to do.....makes no difference to me....my ONLY point is with an FXR with stock gearing or any final gearing I mentioned above on page 1 of this thread and recopied below, you're not running your engine at 2600 RPMS at 55 mph in 5th gear....it's NOT happening...LOL....it's just not happening....that's all my point is.....I can't make it any clearer than that..........

MPH 5th gear
2.92 3.15 3.37 3.037

RPM RPM RPM RPM
50 ------ 2050 2200 2000
55 ------ 2300 2450 2200
60 2300 2500 2650 2400
65 2500 2700 2900 2600
70 2700 2900 3100 2800


...........an