fxrs gearing

[Homesick]

ClassicRider, when I got the bike the leather bags weren't there.

joe

[ClassicRider]

hardluk1....

Let the guy that started the post get what HE wants.

Here is what the sdlowrider, orignally posted @ the beginning:

I have a basically stock 1993 fxrs conv. and HATE the stock gearing. I recently got a 65 tooth rear pully and want to put it on the bike... who had done this and did you have to change the belt length, if so what size did u go to?

So I ask you....what have I said above that did anything more than attempt to help answer the questions he originally asked????? lol I don't think I have.... <looks at you fairly confused>

And from what it see ClassicRider most of your hostory was copied from another incomplete history that fxr99 at the cvo forum,not the one here,had going .

Actually the "person" you are referring to is FXR2evo99 @ www.CVOHarley.com if I am reading your statement correctly, you type fairly criptic so I am trying to guess what I think you are saying.....anyway....just to be clear I AM FXR2evo99 from CVO.Harley.com that's my screen name over there....just so you know. IF you read the "Thread" here in V~Twin where I linked the "FXR HISTORY" thread from CVO.Harley.com to V~Twin, you will see some critc done by Y2K, and I answered his questions as well, he had some excellent input.

"....what a dingbat...." I am not sure what your message is here....once again somewhat criptic...

Which breathersetup was better or worse case or head . I'll have case, Are the cam/lifters/pushrods a great and bullet proof design, no that is there weak spot. And the early cases had less of a changes of weeping oil than later models.They had good pionts and bad ,through out the evo line.

The 1992 and earlier cases breath out of a hose that comes out of the bottom of the case. Starting with model year 1993, all bikes had the crank case breather that vented out of the cylinder head and into the air filter. The umbrella valve was supposed to help separate liquid oil from the air stream. As for which one is better....at this moment I don't have a clue honestly....all I know is my 1999 FXR2 evo had some leaking and I fixed it....thanks to some better quality gaskets and I have had no problems since....

Anybody tell you that your writeing reads like a lawyer. What book did you copy his from.

Actually, yes, I have been accused throughout my life of being a "Lawyer" but I don't necessarily believe that's all bad....

As for the tone of your post, I am not actually sure what your issues are, it sounds like you have a lot to offer, I welcome you to join in the "Original" thread I put together over @ CVO.Harley....that particular forum/website was set up by someone [I don't even know by whom] for those of us that own the "CVO" bikes as "HISTORY" shows the FXR2, FXR3, and FXR4 were the very first Custom Vehicle Operation's (CVO) bikes that Harley Davidson made. So I felt the website was lacking a "Historical" perspective of what the FXR's were about to begin with....so I sat out to put some information about the HISTORY of the FXR into motion. I felt that particualar website was an excellent format for it....I then came over here as a three year member and thought...well....I will simply "link" the thread so that others that visit this site might have an opportunity to read about the FXR and what it is all about and how it got started. That particular "Thread" is open to anyone to participate and INFACT I WELCOME all participation....so by all means get in there and share some information or jump over to the FXR HISTORY Thread I created here at V~Twin and start offering some input if you like...everyone there will appreciate it just as I will.

At the beginning of the "FXR HISTORY" thread there are references to the materials I had access to draw upon in helping to get out the 'HISTORICAL" information....and as always critics are welcome.....

I know you have mentioned the "Nova" several times...and the Nova was a project that Porshce participated with Harley Davidson on, and it never got off the floor....so big deal....it didn't make the history books.....but nearly 84,000 FXR's have been on our highways since they began production in 1982.....and I am thrilled to own such a wonderful bike....Harley Davidson's best frame/chasis ever created.....and if you don't like the evo engine....then throw in a twin cam....makes no difference to me....while I happen to enjoy the EVO engine, I love my FXR2 and I am blessed to own it.....It's helping in creating a lot of memories....

Oh and to go back on topic, I am quite interested in learning about so many FXR owners that are indeed running the 3.37 gearing as to how they feel with it....it appears that sdlowrider hasn't felt so great about it....

I believe I have traced the use of the 3.37 gearing for FXR's all the way back to 1985 as it was being put into some of the FXR's then, and beginning in 1989 all FXRs were running 3.37 gearing through 1993. In 1994 the gearing was switched to 3.15 and finally with the emergence of the 1999 FXR2's, 1999 FXR3's and 2000 FXR4's 2.925 gearing became the final choice from the Motor Company.

Regards,

"Classic"

[Grinder]

When I rode home from work last night I looked at my
Tach/spedo and at 60 mph was turning 2850, at 64/65mph
was turning 3000, at 70 it was 3300 or so, it started to rain
I know I have a 70 sprocket, I just bought a new one , don't know what's up front, I would say @3300 and 70mph the engine is running
were it needs to be, And if I want to pass something I just twist it in 5th and it goes faster than most things on the road.Going from 70 to 100 only take a few seconds, it's just hell to hang on sometimes.1988 FXRS Just my 2cnts.

[hardluk1]

Classic rider . If someone wants to learn about the history fine ,get it posted at the top of the page then everyone can go through it if and when they want to. But like I have side before, if it wasn't for the nova you wouldn't be bragg'n about how great our bikes are. It did not start to be a fxr so if your History would be closer to right if that to was included. And porshce did design the motor but not the frame a some were tested in cobbled up frames, some in what is now the fxr and flht. Thats also where the fairing design for the fx bagger came from. Just list the gears in a column to be helpful so someone doesn't have to read through 1000 words to find what they might want to know. Some of us know that a 65 tooth does fit some if not all years also. If the late models had a 2.95 gear ,big darn deal,,what are the GEARS used to get you to final drive and what are the tranny gears for all years . Does not matter what the final is . It's the different primaries gears and knowing what works and the final drive drive gears and again knowing what works and then a person can deside instead of haveing to read the whole drawn out story. I have a manual that covers 84-90 and there are mistakes there and we know that even some of harley's own history is not right for these bikes . And to the 1st post, you did not give him a reply is to if you have any knowledge if a 65 tooth pulley works. Yes, it does on early models atleast.

[ClassicRider]

Grinder~~~
my Tach/spedo and at 60 mph was turning 2850, at 64/65mph
was turning 3000, at 70 it was 3300. I know I have a 70 sprocket, I just bought a new one , don't know what's up front, I would say @3300 and 70mph the engine is running
were it needs to be, And if I want to pass something I just twist it in 5th and it goes faster than most things on the road.Going from 70 to 100 only take a few seconds, it's just hell to hang on sometimes.1988 FXRS Just my 2cnts.

Your 1988 FXRS features I "believe" has a 24 Tooth Compensating Sprocket, a 37 Tooth Clutch Shell Basket, a 32 Tooth Transmission Pulley and as you noted a 70 Tooth Rear Wheel Sprocket....although unless you are the original owner and know what you have done...who knows what you have.....really....unless you check it out....

It appears however if you do have what is listed above that your tac is off as most are....by around 200 rpm's if you look at the charts it will show the differences you noted in your numbers. Those numbers above were taken from an Excel RPM spread sheet calculator that takes into account compensating sprocket, clutch basket, the transmission pulley, the rear wheel sprocket, as well as tire diameter in calculating actual rpms....and while of course I have no idea what your tire size actually is, at the end of the day we all pretty much run the same tires...with very little "diameter' changes in height, that would create much difference anyway.

But the bottom line is you like what you are feeling which is great.....should you ever decide you want to feel something different the least expensive way for you to do so, would be to change your rear sprocket to 65 Tooth and your transmission pulley to 33 Tooth as well as changing your belt to a 133 Tooth [I believe this is the required amount of teeth, not 100% sure as of this writing]..... This gearing would end up giving you 3.037 final gearing....as charted above.....IF you felt something like that would match your riding style and would like to feel something a bit different....

Regards,

"Classic"

[ClassicRider]

hardluk1....

Thanks for your input on the NOVA project....I was aware of it...and I have gone to google and found some information on it that pretty much surmises the topic of the NOVA, at the end of the day every manufactuer makes decisons on what they think will work for the consumer....on this matter it appears HD faced that" fork in the road" and made the decision to scrape the project.....and we have what we have today....

As you say it has it's place in the History of the FXR, even brief as it is....so I will add what I found on google as a link so others can read about it if they wish at the cvo thread, "FXR HISTORY".

As for talking about the length of my posts...I feel I am not really into "***" for "tat" suffice it to say if you see no value in them...I fully understand....but as long as the moderators of the board don't inform me of some egregious error with my form of communication, I am comfortable communicating how I communicate.

As for why I continue to talk about "final drive" it's simply an easy way to reference what is going....you are right it's about the amount of teeth on each gear, ie: compensating sprocket teeth, clutch basket teeth, transmission pulley teeth, rear wheel sprocket teeth and of course finally tire diameter as well....all this leads to the end result of the "final gearing"...... WITHOUT getting into transmission changes...I mean if you can change a couple of gears and not mess with your actual transmission then you are on this side of being thrifty....That's why I said going to a Baker's 6 speed is a needless event with these bikes....you just don't need it at all....Also there is always a constant debate about doing X or Y....and each one begats another potential issue....for example by changing a compensating sprocket from 24 tooth to 25 tooth and changing the clutch shell basket from 37 tooth to 36 tooth will keep you from having to change the primary chain....for example, trying to alter those combinations and you can or may end up having to change a primary chain as well which adds further expense.....and my point is that if someone decides they are uncomfortable with how their bikes are feeling at highway speed, sometimes you can't alter what's in the primary case because of how the transmission fits to it....to get to a "certain type of gearing" so in situations like these sometimes leaving the primary alone and then going back to the transmission pulley and the rear wheel sprocket and the belt becomes the more prudent thing to do dollar wise....that's why the 3.037 gearing was presented above as an alternative for guys with the FXRs who have 3.37 gearing but have different mating set up from the primary side of things....In 1994 Harley changed the set ups of these bikes which allowed one to have a 3.15 final gearing. Anyway it's a "maze" to tell you the truth.....so that's why I say.....I simply refer to it as final gearing of either say, 3.36 as the shovel engines had in 1982, 1983, and 1984 evo had as well. In 1985 HD went to the final drive of 3.37 gearing for FXR's, until 1994 then as I just stated above, 3.15 was given, and finally 2.925 gearing was provided in the CVO FXR's of 1999 and 2000 (FXR2, FXR3 and FXR4). So what's the bottom line.....ride an FXR2 or FXR3 and FXR4 and see how Harley perfected the "final drive" with the 2.925...it works perfectly in the mountains without having to constantly reshift, it works perfectly in the city, and it works perfectly out on the highway at speed....5th gear is basically an overdrive while the other 4 gears pull very nicely for the weight of these bikes. It's the perfect gearing for these bikes actually, and it's available to anyone with an 1985 or later FXR via the change of the transmission gear, rear wheel sprocket and belt length change ending one with 3.037 gearing which is so so so close to 2.925 that you would never notice the difference and a lot less expensive than changing stuff in the primary.......

.....and now back to the regularly scheduled discussion of gearing.....

Regards,

"Classic"

[hardluk1]

It still doesn't help the guy that does know what a bikes ratios are to have say the 2.925 gears ,with out kowing what the tranny gear set and primary is or the final drive ratios it just doesn't mean near as much as also knowing if how the pimary to tranny are also geared . How about a list show what the complete list of the gears for different years listed and even what harley thinks they might have put in the shovel years ,84 the big guess year. Then people can find out what is in the 14 to 24 year old bike has when they go in for mantainence. I can tell you that a 2.925 or the 3.037 gear on the early clutch ain't a good idea, it may work for some time but these wet clutch early bikes don;t have the clutch disc that the later model have . They are shaky enough stock. The up grade is a primo clutch that fits the hub steel to steel with a much better job than harley did.There was also a 3.57 in 84 ,on the fxrs.

[ClassicRider]

hardluk1~~~

a higher gearing ratio on the early clutch ain't a good idea, it may work for some time but these wet clutch early bikes don;t have the clutch disc that the later model have .

So what model years are you considering the "early wet clutch bikes"?

So what model years are you talking about that would have the "clutch" that could handle the gearing modification?

The up grade is a primo clutch that fits the hub steel to steel with a much better job than harley did.

So which years specifically would benefit from this, and how would the 'benefit' manifest itself for the owner who puts one in?

Regards,

"Classic"

[hardluk1]

You must know the difference in the clutches in the fxr's
84-89 6 small fiction plates
90-97 8 friction plates with a stronger hub with better control . This would be a great cluch if it was as simple as changeing out.
Primo ? well heck ,thge early wet years of course .
And wet doesn't not refer to and oil drip on chain although some oil does get to the clutch and you do know that. But the primo is one of the few good upgrades for all the early clutch setups, evo ,shovel and earlier. ( Manefest ) cute.
Of course if hd puts the 2.926 ratio in the later madel that makes it all right ,right.

[ClassicRider]

You must know the difference in the clutches in the fxr's

I beginning to, actually understand the difference....ie:

84-89 6 small fiction plates
90-97 8 friction plates with a stronger hub with better control . This would be a great cluch if it was as simple as changeing out.

if what was as simple as changing out...changing out from what to where????



Primo ? well heck ,thge early wet years of course .
And wet doesn't not refer to and oil drip on chain although some oil does get to the clutch and you do know that. But the primo is one of the few good upgrades for all the early clutch setups, evo ,shovel and earlier.

( Manefest ) cute.
I thought so too


But the primo clutch is one of the few good upgrades for all the early clutch setups, shovel and evos

So for 1982, 1983 shovels....and for 1984 - 1989 evos because of the small 6 friction plates.

So what about from 1990-1994?

The scope and breath of my interest is limited to the FXR plateform specifically.....are you saying these clutches performed very well or were in need of a "primo" clutch update as well?

I can speak to the 1999 FXR2's, FXR3's and 2000 FXR4's by saying the following:

What is amazing here of course is that when speaking about a 1999 FXR2 and a 2002 RKC (FLHRCI) is that while the inner primarys are different since they are attaching to different transmission set ups between each bike, the outer primary cover and gasket share the same part number betwen the two bikes, the only difference is that the FXR2 has mid range controls and the FLHRCI doesn't so that means the Inspection Covers are different.

When going into inside of the primary of both bikes, the only 2 major differences between the FXR2 and the 2002 FLHRCI is chain tensioner & pad and how it attaches to the wall of the inner primary, and that while both bikes feature having 9 friction plates they share different part numbers for these specifically. However, everything else is identical, ie: damper spring, damper spring seat, 8 steel plates, clutch hub, clutch shell, compensating sprocket, primary chain etc.

Thus, of course, I certainly feel no compelllng reason to upgrade either one of my clutches for these two bikes....which of course means to me that the evo clutch for 1999 was/is perfect.

Of course if hd puts the 2.926 ratio in the later madel that makes it all right ,right. Damn staight.....lol....

OF COURSE, it makes it alright <smiles>....what better gearing could you have for such a light bike [560lbs] specifically on the FXR2, FXR3, FXR4 platform. That you can make like a 1989-1993 FXRS-CONV Low Rider Convertible in a matter of minutes, with saddlebags, and a windshield, with the addition of a T~Bag on a rack, is there any better way of seeing the US [one up of course, and being 5' 11" or less with an inseame of 33" or less]?

So exactly there is absolutely no better gearing for an FXR "platformed" bike regardless of whether an individual increases the size of their power plant or continue to keep the power plant as it arrived from the factory, than 2.925 final gearing.

I have certainly found it fascinating that most of the given components of the primary of an FXR2, FXR3, and FXR4 are so uniquely similar as to what is inside my 2002 RKC classic as well, which of course make up portions of the assembled parts in providing the 2.925 gearing.....

While this topic addresses the gearing of an FXR platformed bike, I did change my gearing on my 2002 RKC earlier this summer to 3.37 gearing from 3.15 because I desired a bit more "torque" in the lower area. It's wonderful for the heaviness of that bike for sure!!!!

I certainly get it, if anyone is feeling that the 3.37 final gearing for an FXR is pushing their RPM's a bit higher than they would like.....BUT CERTAINLY it goes without saying to modify an FXR with 3.37 gearing by finding a solution into a 6 gear transmission...is pointless because of what all has been said above previously in this thread....and it seems as if the "discussion" might be if any FXR owner reads this and decides they want to modify their "earlier" FXR to a bit "higher" gearing, the recommendation you would be making is to also consider "updating' or improving those earlier clutches with a "primo" clutch....and I think that's what you are saying....if I am correct, or are you saying that a "limitation" of the earlier FXR's 82-89 specificially would definitely benefit from a clutch project to a primo clutch independent of whether they thought modifying their gearing is a desire or not. What I am still not clear on is what about the 90-94 FXR evos. I am really not concerned about all the other platforms the evo was on....ie: heavier bikes needing something different than a "lighter bike" would need per say....So my focus is specifically on the FXR platform.....

Regards,

"Classic"

[ClassicRider]

Grinder I saw your posting of your 1988 FXRS, I am curious which one is it:
FXR Super Glide
FXRS Low Rider
FXLR Low Rider Custom

It's a great looking bike!!!!

Regards,

"Classic"

[thebreez]

I read somewhere that cop bikes have special gears in the trany, and the shift points are at higher MPH....
Must be so cause after reading this thread I see that my fxrp is running 3000 rpm at 70 mph, this is good, the motor is built up with what I think is a mild stage3, guy I got it from said...
"between me and the wife theres five hundred pounds of meat on this bike so I built it for low to midrange power"
The bike feels like it could pull a taller gear.
Anyone know what rear sproket is on a 94 fxrp????

[Grinder]

Classic

It's a lowrider...EB
Last of the best, love it when the rubs
call it a sportster.

[sdlowrider]

Didnt think that I was going to stir up this big of a discussion! Wow. In any case I'm taking the day today to change to the 65tooth pulley on the back...If I have to go to a shorter belt I suppose thats my bad luck. I'll post again and let ALL of you know my experience. Thanx for all the help, everyone.

[hardluk1]

I don't own a 90-94 so i don't think about it as a whole. I just don't worry about the whole line. I'll worry about my early fxr year bike.
If a 6 speed is pointless for whatever reason in your mind is pointless just show how closed minded you are. Does that also mean the current trannies are pointless. The dealers have been installing 6 speeds in early tc's for years. So tell harley it was pointless. Untill you have road one setup right ,you don't know what your talking about. If i had a some extra power in my fxr and wanted to run 75 or 80 mph regularly i would have one. Yes i know ,you probably ride 80 ,and don't mind turn a motor that many rpm's, fill up to fill up. Did you also run your truck or car back in the 60's or 70's over 3000 rpm on the interstate regularly. You can only screw with gearing so much before you loss the advantage that added power can gave you. Ride with a good 4 speed bike that has the same power that you have and your bike will run better. simple enough. And most riders do add hp sooner or later. So that is where that 6 speed is nice.Just not on a stock 80 or 88" motor but it would be enteresting to talk to someone that has one in a early stock geard bike. For myself and this bike i like the 65t rear ,it just lets the bike stay on what power it has while i run around the mountains in 4th gear between 45 and 55 but i can still get on the flat top if i have to and run 70 at 3000 .It just run good ,nice and lazy. I just flat hate to ride on the Interstate. I am at a point of life i don't have to be anywhere for anything so the taller gears might be better for the interstate but just changeing the rear pulley does wake up these bikes CHEAP. and works great for some at lower rpm's.
This is not about your years ,it's about eary fxr's ,and for one of us to change both primary gears and chain and most likely something clutch related to come up with 2.925 ratio to make it a "GREAT" biike for you does not mean it is also the only or the best for a early bikes or every rider. Drive train wise yours and the early bikes are very different in the primary and tranny. What's good for you my not be for many others. Thats why some folks ride soft tails. If you don't under stand ,find a local indy shop and let them explain the diffenence, or ride with the local abate chapter,there should be a bunch of older riders of early bikes. You can take your bike to the drag strip and hammer on it and ride home, if you hammer on these stock tapper shaft trannies and clutches you will tow home, real simple.
If every wanted the same thing ,damd it would be a boreing world .