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Old 03-21-2006, 01:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Pro Pipe baffle mod

The attached doc explains the Pro Pipe baffle mod more clearly. The dyno is not mine but a mild build, one with the standard baffle and the modfied baffle with dyno tune on the same day. Notice the big boost in torque on the low end. 95 tq @ 2500 rpm - 100 tq @ 3000 rpm

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2004 Deuce
Lowered 2" front and rear
Cycle Vision 2" forward control extenders
HTCC heads modified
HTCC TB modified
HTCC 95" pistons .005 over
Cometic .030 head gaskets
Wild Things TC 2Gs
SE Air
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Last edited by chas2379; 03-22-2006 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 03-21-2006, 02:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
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And just what mod was done?
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Old 03-21-2006, 02:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Geezer-Glide
And just what mod was done?
http://65.38.172.84/forums/showthrea...371#post754371
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Old 03-21-2006, 02:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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How does this mod effect the TQ curve differently than simply banding up one or two rows of holes on the baffle as some here suggest to essentially accomplish the same thing?
This mod isn't as simple to do but it is pretty easy if it's more effective, I would use it. My problem is that I don't have a dyno to play with different options and no competent tuner so....
I will be installing a TVII closed loop system soon and will use one of these mods to try to get rid of that low end dip I get from my propipe.
So any of you dyno/exhaust expert types wanna chime in on this? I know alot of peeps here have propipe and would like to use the best mod.

Hey Chas, I see you are in Flagataff, isn't that 7000 feet? Was that dyno done up there? pretty impressive if it was and with MM/EFI too! Do you know what the engine mods were?
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:25 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Any doubts

Any doubting Thomasa's block off the first row of holes on your baffle and show us a dyno chart of the before and after. Blocking the holes is an old trick and restricts the flow a bit. This might or might not be the best for your particuliar build.

The mod I did is tunable on the dyno or seat of the pants. The first one I modified didn't do much. I had 4 holes and the washer was 2" from the baffle. I drilled more holes and turned the bolt out until there was 1/2" left on the engine side.

I test rode the Deuce with 3.15 gearing and 17" rear wheel at 7,000ft alt. The shift from 1st to 2nd spun the rear tire. At 1100 ft in Phoenix a roll on in 1st (make sure the bike is pointed straight ahead) and it will lay a strip 10-12ft.

I later added some fuel with my laptop at 80 to WOT from 4000 to 6200 rpm which helped the top end lean condition caused by the mod.

Next week I will dyno with the Pro Pipe mod and then with a new tune with the D&D Fat Cat which arrived yesterday. I will post the three charts, Pro Pipe no mod, Pro Pipe mod and D&D Fat Cat.
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2004 Deuce
Lowered 2" front and rear
Cycle Vision 2" forward control extenders
HTCC heads modified
HTCC TB modified
HTCC 95" pistons .005 over
Cometic .030 head gaskets
Wild Things TC 2Gs
SE Air
SERT
D&D Fat Cat 2-1

Don't stare (no matter how beautiful you think she is)

Last edited by chas2379; 03-22-2006 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Cool, I happen to have an extra baffle for my propipe so I am gonna do one your way and one with a row or two of holes banded. Won't have a dyno print out sept for the one in the seat of my pants, that might not be very pretty.....

Any reason you can't weld the washer to the bolt other than loosing the tuning option of different sized washers?
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Old 03-22-2006, 11:23 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas2379
The attached doc explains the Pro Pipe baffle mod more clearly. The dyno is not mine but a mild build, one with the standard baffle and the modfied baffle with dyno tune on the same day. Notice the big boost in torque on the low end. 95 tq @ 2500 rpm - 100 tq @ 3000 rpm

Chas...
With your modified baffle, what did you do about the fiberglass? I rode 1000 miles high speed to and from Daytona a few weeks ago with a brand new PPHS and half of the fiberglass is blown/burnt out of it. Do you keep your glass repacked or just remove it and cover some holes?
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Old 03-22-2006, 12:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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If you want to keep your fiberglass, you gotta put a strip of aluminum window screen around the outside and underneath. The screen that comes underneath the fiberglass deteriorates and when it does your fiberglass blows out soon afterwards. Hold the screen in place with some safety wire.
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Old 03-22-2006, 02:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Chas,
please do me a favor and cut and paste so i can see your mods, i am not able to open your file. Really want to see what you have done. Did you notice any diff in sound with mods? performance sounds like impressive change. What gave you the idea to do this?
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler1300
Chas,
please do me a favor and cut and paste so i can see your mods, i am not able to open your file. Really want to see what you have done. Did you notice any diff in sound with mods? performance sounds like impressive change. What gave you the idea to do this?
The total bolt length is 4" . I drilled nine, not the 4 shown, 7/16" holes in the end of baffle with one in the center for the bolt.


I welded one lock nut on the end of the baffle. I put a 1 5/8" washer on the bolt and use a nut to hold the washer next to the bolt head. I then inserted the bolt from the back of the baffle through lock nut that was welded to the baffle. The bolt extends through the baffle a total of 1/2" including the nut.

This is a starting point for your tune. Your bike should be dyno tuned and the bolt with the washer can be adjusted in or out with a socket and extension

The end of the stock street baffle is closed and has no holes. The washer is not welded but held with the nut. This way you can change the size of the washer. Some builds might need a larger washer. You won't really know for sure until you have it on the dyno.

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2004 Deuce
Lowered 2" front and rear
Cycle Vision 2" forward control extenders
HTCC heads modified
HTCC TB modified
HTCC 95" pistons .005 over
Cometic .030 head gaskets
Wild Things TC 2Gs
SE Air
SERT
D&D Fat Cat 2-1

Don't stare (no matter how beautiful you think she is)

Last edited by chas2379; 03-22-2006 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezerdog
Chas...
With your modified baffle, what did you do about the fiberglass? I rode 1000 miles high speed to and from Daytona a few weeks ago with a brand new PPHS and half of the fiberglass is blown/burnt out of it. Do you keep your glass repacked or just remove it and cover some holes?
I just wrapped copper wire around fiberglass. Probably doesn't hold the glass as good as screen.
__________________
2004 Deuce
Lowered 2" front and rear
Cycle Vision 2" forward control extenders
HTCC heads modified
HTCC TB modified
HTCC 95" pistons .005 over
Cometic .030 head gaskets
Wild Things TC 2Gs
SE Air
SERT
D&D Fat Cat 2-1

Don't stare (no matter how beautiful you think she is)
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Old 03-23-2006, 05:39 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks for taking the time to shaare this info. A couple of questions. Why do you think this works? Is this just adjusting the back pressure? Why the need for the additional holes drilled in the end of the baffle? I have tried to use screen under and over packing around the length of the baffle but it never lasts. Do you think extending a "washer" perhaps 1/2" larger than the edge of the end of the baffle< secured with the welded nut would act as a deflecter and prevent the direct flow of the exhaust from tearing apart the wrap. I could still drill the 4 or 6 holes through the washer.
Besides back pressure improvement i really want to make this pipe quieter for touring. You seems to have some insight into the physics here, any suggestions on quieting this down without destroying the performance would be really appreciated.
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Old 03-23-2006, 09:14 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler1300
Thanks for taking the time to shaare this info. A couple of questions. Why do you think this works? Is this just adjusting the back pressure? Why the need for the additional holes drilled in the end of the baffle? I have tried to use screen under and over packing around the length of the baffle but it never lasts. Do you think extending a "washer" perhaps 1/2" larger than the edge of the end of the baffle< secured with the welded nut would act as a deflecter and prevent the direct flow of the exhaust from tearing apart the wrap. I could still drill the 4 or 6 holes through the washer.
Besides back pressure improvement i really want to make this pipe quieter for touring. You seems to have some insight into the physics here, any suggestions on quieting this down without destroying the performance would be really appreciated.
I haven't had any trouble with the wrap. It's still in my current exhaust after 2 years. Before the first dyno run with the Pro-Pipe, I drilled some extra holes in it. Then we ran it like that, then used a hose clamp to tune it. I ended up welding two of the holes closed to get the most torque. It runs great now! NO dips in the torque curve below 5200 rpm.

Last edited by ToddM; 03-24-2006 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 03-23-2006, 04:57 PM   #14 (permalink)
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why did u drill the holes in the first place? What do u feel was the net effect of drilling the holes.

I sometimes wonder that if it was that simple to improve this pipe why didn't/ doesn't V&H di it. They must have a dedicated department of engineers devoted to computed simulations of air flow turbulance/ laminar flow and back pressure. Designed with the aid of stratigically designed sensors to measure these various factors. After all they are in a competition for performance with other major players in the after market exhaust industry. If drilling 2-4 holes would dramatically improve the product i can't believe they wouldn't do it. What the trade off--i mean free torgue waiting to be had?

Perhaps your wrap was not torn up as mine was BECAUSE you drilled a few holes thus changing the flow dynamics inside the exhaust can.

Chas, thanks again
Steve
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler1300
I sometimes wonder that if it was that simple to improve this pipe why didn't/ doesn't V&H di it. They must have a dedicated department of engineers devoted to computed simulations of air flow turbulance/ laminar flow and back pressure. Designed with the aid of stratigically designed sensors to measure these various factors. After all they are in a competition for performance with other major players in the after market exhaust industry. If drilling 2-4 holes would dramatically improve the product i can't believe they wouldn't do it. What the trade off--i mean free torgue waiting to be had?
Chas, thanks again
Steve
They don't do it because they made the pipe for EVERYONE, not just one type of build. Thats why they sell competition baffles too. It's a good starting point for home tuners.
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THIS HAS BEEN A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT. YOU MAY NOW RETURN TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING. THANK YOU.
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