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Old 04-09-2006, 08:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Andrews EV13 cam, lost 20mph?

Had the dealer install, during the winter storage, an Andrews EV 13 cam in my 97 FLHTC, along with a Crane Hi4E single fire ignition. Just got the bike out of storage yesturday, and had a good ride today.

After going easy for the first 100 miles or so, I decided to see what kind of difference I would feel/see with the new install. What a surprise, I lost about 20 mph on the top end. Max speed with me solo, flat road, no head wind, is now 80mph. I tried backing off the throttle to see if it was running lean, but no change in engine pull. Do you need to rejet when changing cams? Presently I have, Pilot 45, main 180, sportster 1200 needle, Kerker slip ons, and K&N filter, open back breather.

I realize that the EV13 is designed to develop more torque at lower RPM, suitable for heavy touring bikes, but is the trade off that much HP, that it would cause me to loose 20MPH? Thanks in advance
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Old 04-09-2006, 10:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That doesnt sound right. I've gone over 90 with more to spare (96 evo). Some days nobody is on the freeway and I have a little fun.

Was your cam original? If so, try one sizer bigger main jet and see if it helps, if not, put the original back in.
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Old 04-09-2006, 10:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candubrain
Had the dealer install, during the winter storage, an Andrews EV 13 cam in my 97 FLHTC, along with a Crane Hi4E single fire ignition. Just got the bike out of storage yesturday, and had a good ride today.

After going easy for the first 100 miles or so, I decided to see what kind of difference I would feel/see with the new install. What a surprise, I lost about 20 mph on the top end. Max speed with me solo, flat road, no head wind, is now 80mph. I tried backing off the throttle to see if it was running lean, but no change in engine pull. Do you need to rejet when changing cams? Presently I have, Pilot 45, main 180, sportster 1200 needle, Kerker slip ons, and K&N filter, open back breather.

I realize that the EV13 is designed to develop more torque at lower RPM, suitable for heavy touring bikes, but is the trade off that much HP, that it would cause me to loose 20MPH? Thanks in advance

No way! Not simply because you changed to that cam. What cam was in there before? Pilot might be a little small (and that wouldn't affect your top speed anyway), but other than that, your jetting actually doesn't seem too bad. Is it jetted the way it was before, or was it jetted again when they added the EV13? Does the carb butterfly open all the way? Was the timing changed? Is the carb diaphragm damaged? Is your clutch slipping? Is the VOES still connected? It should be timed near stock, or a couple degrees advanced. Is it? Did you check the fuel tank, lines, and carb for jellied gasoline from storage? Your bike should be at about 72-73 lbs/ft of torque and maybe 65 HP now, with a good strong pull from 2300-2500 to about 4800-5000 RPM. Top speed should be about 105 MPH, plus or minus a few. Gas mileage at 60 MPH should be about 45 MPG or better. In any case, it ain't right, so take it back to the guy who installed the cam and tell them to fix it.
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Old 04-09-2006, 11:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Sounds like a rejet is in order,why didn't your dealer consider this I wonder
Are you running stock exhaust and or aircleaner?
A cam by it'self doesn't do much without the rest of the package and can even make a net loss without other supporting parts.
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Old 04-10-2006, 08:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks guys, some good questions and ideas. I was reading the instructions that came with the cam and it does state that rejetting is sometimes required. Even though I could not feel a difference backing off the throttle, I'm going to go richer on the main.

I did notice some pinging at 2500 rpm in top gear when I roll on the throttle, pointing to a too advance ignition timing. But the Crane instructions stated this could be caused by a lean mixture when used in combination of the multispark feature of the system.

So based on what advice you people have given and what I've read, I will go richer. As to why the dealer didn't do it, who knows......brian
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Old 04-11-2006, 12:48 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candubrain
Thanks guys, some good questions and ideas. I was reading the instructions that came with the cam and it does state that rejetting is sometimes required. Even though I could not feel a difference backing off the throttle, I'm going to go richer on the main.

I did notice some pinging at 2500 rpm in top gear when I roll on the throttle, pointing to a too advance ignition timing. But the Crane instructions stated this could be caused by a lean mixture when used in combination of the multispark feature of the system.

So based on what advice you people have given and what I've read, I will go richer. As to why the dealer didn't do it, who knows......brian
He "didn't do it" because (imo) the jetting is probably not all that bad. The main might be a little lean, but not that much, and with that needle, the pilot probably isn't too bad either. If you're accurate in your reporting, you're talking about losing 20 MPH here! That's a lot of horsepower! If you were that lean, you'd probably have burned a piston or something like that by now. I'd look for another problem. Look at the plugs after one of your top speed runs. Are they bright white? If not, it isn't a problem with the thing being too lean.

As to the pinging--if you screw it on in fifth gear from 2500 RPM, a little pinging from a fully warmed-up engine would not be cause for worry.
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Old 04-11-2006, 09:12 AM   #7 (permalink)
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First thing I'd check would be the throttle cable and make sure that the wheel is turning all the way to the stop. Timing could also be the problem. I've never seen an installation of a EV13 require a carb change assuming the carb was right before the cam change and that's all that was changed.
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Old 04-11-2006, 10:43 AM   #8 (permalink)
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If none of the above suggestions help, then I would suspect that the dealer mis-timed the camshaft a tooth or two. The Andrews 3 and 1/3 are both excellent cams. Can't imagine it being the cam.
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Old 04-11-2006, 09:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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good advice, thanks guys. I'll check the bike over myself this weekend and let you know if I find anything.
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Old 04-13-2006, 06:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Did the ign timing get re-set correctly when the cam was installed? I put an EV 13 in my 97 EVO this winter & when I checked the ign timing after it was up & running the advance was retarded over 8.. I re-set the ign timing correctly (I also have an aftermarket ign module) & that thing runs like a scalded dog now (will top out a just over 115 mph on flat ground).. Does that tec that did the job know the ign timing procedure is different now when using that new module.. The service manual 20 mark is not used with the new module but instead the timing is set to the 35 mark at full advance..

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Old 04-13-2006, 06:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdclooney
Did the ign timing get re-set correctly when the cam was installed? I put an EV 13 in my 97 EVO this winter & when I checked the ign timing after it was up & running the advance was retarded over 8.. I re-set the ign timing correctly (I also have an aftermarket ign module) & that thing runs like a scalded dog now (will top out a just over 115 mph on flat ground).. Does that tec that did the job know the ign timing procedure is different now when using that new module.. The service manual 20 mark is not used with the new module but instead the timing is set to the 35 mark at full advance..

JD
thanks, I will ask...
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Old 04-20-2006, 06:32 AM   #12 (permalink)
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interesting post. Any updates?
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Old 04-20-2006, 06:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis629
interesting post. Any updates?
I haven't had the chance to bring the bike back to the dealer, but the mechanic is aware of the problem.

As far as rejetting the main, (larger), I have held off because I bought a set of HD Touring mufflers off a fellow which will be more restrictive than the Kerkers that I have now. It usually takes 2 weeks for items to cross the border. Once they are in place, I'll have a better idea on jetting.

I also adjusted the timing slope that is on the Crane H4E to a less aggressive one, this has eliminated the pinging I was getting during heavy throttle and lower rpm. This also added about 5 mph to the top speed.

Thanks for asking, when I know more, I'll pass it along...brian
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Old 12-02-2008, 08:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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basics first.
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Old 12-03-2008, 12:51 AM   #15 (permalink)
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i am also curious as to how this has gone !!
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