engine oil in primary

[2001FLTRI]

Last year I noticed my oil tank a bit low, (1987 Lowrider) added 1 quart. Then about 1000 miles later it was down again, the engine runs fine no smoke, plugs are clean. This spring I changed the fluids and drained about 2.75 quarts of oil from the primary. I pulled the primary apart and replaced the seal and sleeve on the crankshaft behind the rotor hoping to fix this, but it still does the exact same thing. After about 750-1000 miles it leaks about 1 quart into the primary.
The breather is working fine and I ride pretty easy, usually keeping the revs below 4000 rpm's. Stock Evo motor with EV-46 cam and S&S carb. Any one else have this problem????

[Chilly]

I read in an Evo book that the older cases had a steel insert built into the case for the bearings and seals to fit into. For some reason they sometimes take to leaking between the steel insert and the aluminum case. Not sure what year they did away with the steel insert, but apparently this stopped this particular issue. I can check tonight unless someone here can chime in. If yours is all aluminum I'd have to think it's still a leaky seal.

Chilly

[HDMD88]

Originally Posted by 2001FLTRI

Last year I noticed my oil tank a bit low, (1987 Lowrider) added 1 quart. Then about 1000 miles later it was down again, the engine runs fine no smoke, plugs are clean. This spring I changed the fluids and drained about 2.75 quarts of oil from the primary. I pulled the primary apart and replaced the seal and sleeve on the crankshaft behind the rotor hoping to fix this, but it still does the exact same thing. After about 750-1000 miles it leaks about 1 quart into the primary.
The breather is working fine and I ride pretty easy, usually keeping the revs below 4000 rpm's. Stock Evo motor with EV-46 cam and S&S carb. Any one else have this problem????

You did the right thing by changing the seal and the spacer....but if the problem is still there, it's the steel insert (that the seal is housed in) coming loose from the alum cases. The insert is casted into the cases and it has worked loose letting oil pass on the outside of the insert. You might not be able to see it with you naked eye but die-penatrate will show the problem. When Harley went to billet flywheels they started to see this problem alot. The billet flywheels didn't flex like the two piece flywheels did....since they were a ridged construction they worked loose the insert in the case. Harley since then got rid of the steel insert and made the cases all alum. Harley did have a program to replace those cases at one time but I doubt they still do. You can buy another set of engine cases or have yours repaired. There is a machine shop in Mil. Wisc. that does the repair....I can't remember the name but if you call Zepka Harley Davidson at 814-262-7777 ask for Tom, he can fix you up with the machine shop ( he had his done a couple of years ago) Good Luck

[2001FLTRI]

I will be taking the primary apart in the next few weeks to check it out. Thanks for the replys, I figured it was a crack in the case or something, I heard EVO cases crack in high stress areas.

hdmd88 I will give the guy a call you wrote in your post, also in one of my magizines (I have to find it) there is a motorcycle machine shop guy. I'm sure I'll be able to get it fixed with out buying a new case.

[rickr01]

Originally Posted by 2001FLTRI

I will be taking the primary apart in the next few weeks to check it out. Thanks for the replys, I figured it was a crack in the case or something, I heard EVO cases crack in high stress areas.

hdmd88 I will give the guy a call you wrote in your post, also in one of my magizines (I have to find it) there is a motorcycle machine shop guy. I'm sure I'll be able to get it fixed with out buying a new case.

If the machine shop in the magazine is Dragon Man, I would research other threads. I have heard real bad things about that guy.

[HDMD88]

Originally Posted by rickr01

If the machine shop in the magazine is Dragon Man, I would research other threads. I have heard real bad things about that guy.

He is a BUTCHER....!!!!!

[SKUNKY]

2001 FLTRI...I hope this finds you before you spend a lot of money...I had the same problem on my '90 dresser..the cure is to take the primary apart..take the stator off ...clean the area with brake cleaner...clean it again...now for the next 3 days you put a bead of Loctite 290 (about $13.00 for a 2 oz bottle, buy it at a heavy machine shop) all around the steel sleave on the crank bearing...it's hard to see but if you look real close you'll see a difference in the metal...do it once a day...then when you are putting things back together you'll have 2 screws that hold the wires for the stator..put Loctite Blue on those screws...I did mine in '97 and it's still working....the part that bites my butt is that I told the dealer I was losing a half qt. every 1k ...guess what..that's normal ...then he comences to tell me not to put more then a qt of oil in the primary cause these "new" machines don't need anymore then that...I found out in '97 that they had a TSB on the problem since Feb of '90....just more of HD BS....good luck

[2001FLTRI]

Good idea SKUNKY. I have not pulled it apart yet, the FXLR is my second bike and it sits in the garage. When you apply the 290 Loctite does it work its way around the sleeve or should I some how lay the bike over on the exhaust side to get it to work into that area.

I don't want to spend more $$$$ on this bike, for sure I dont want to but a new case.

Your FL was doing the same thing......filling the primary with engine oil. Could you see any gap/space/crack between the sleeve and the aluminum case??

[digiterry]

My wife's '89 FXR has a similar problem, except that the primary fluid ends up in the oil bag! Her primary fluid is constantly low, with an excess of "engine oil" showing up. Why would it do this if everyone else is losing oil and having an overfull primary? Anyone have any clues?
Thanx, DigiTerry

[SKUNKY]

ok guys...the oil can go either way...engine to primary or primary to engine according to the TSB...if fact , mine went thru periods of time that it would do that...that's when I found the TSB on it...now ...Harley DOES NOT recomend this fix...they say that the 290 can suck it's way into the motor...the indy that told me about the fix said that he had done a number of bikes this way and never had a problem...so I figured WYF...mine has been working for about 7 years now and I have 110k on it....I would not BS you guys about this...I love motorcycles toooo much...have been riding since '68 and I know how others feel about their scoots....now...NO you cannot see a gap in the metal...and you DO NOT have to lay the bike on it's side....I had mine straight up on a lift when I did it...now...about the procedure again...clean the area with break cleaner...spray it REAL good to remove any oil residue from around the bearing...you might see a faint line where the 2 metals (aluminium & steel ) come together...a buddy helped me and we sat there looking at it for a half hour before we decided on the problem area...so don't think that it's not there cause it is...you will NOT even feel a LIP..it's smooth as a babies butt...I just cut the *** off the end of the 290 and ran it around the area ....one time...let it dry for 24 hours then did it again...for a total of 3 days as instructed by the indy....then I let it dry and on day 4 I put the thing back together....go and find the TSB ( Feb 1990) on it and read the warning...then decide if you want to do this or not...It worked for me and others ...let the Spirit move you on this...the alternative will cost @ 2-3k...Harley only fixed them for about 5 yeary after the TSB...good luck Joe

[2001FLTRI]

Thanks for the procedure, I will try it. WTF do I have to lose, the cost of gaskets and the Loctite 290.

[SKUNKY]

It will work....

[2001FLTRI]

I took the primary apart, pulled the rotor and stator off and found the steel insert in the case was loose!!! I ended up pulling the motor and disassembeling the whole thing.
I sent the case back to H-D and ordered a new one ($625) They need the old one to stamp the #'s into the new case. (Chicago H-D 20% off!!)
A wrench at the local biker shop near my house was very helpful with this project. I mentioned to him the procedure SKUNKY told me about (the LOCTITE 290) and he said it would probably work but my insert was to loose and steered me to buying a new case. He also mentioned that he has seen dozens of EVO cases over the years with the loose inserts.
I have a fortune wrapped up in this bike over the last 8 years and I figure another $700-$900 won't kill me.
This project and installing a chorme front end on my bagger this winter will keep me busy.

[SKUNKY]

well...if the new one leaks in a couple of years you will know what to do...thanks for the update..I've been wordering how things were going...Happy winter..

[2001FLTRI]

Over Easter weekend I assembled the engine. New crankcase, fresh bore w/Harley pistons and had the heads re-done. Installed the engine and she fired right up.............that's a great feeling.

$1300 and about 20-25 hours of my own labor the bike is running great.

The new crankcase has no steel insert. On the sprocket side the Timkien races are pressed into aluminium. The crankcase I purchace from H-D is #24563-84E, 5th revision.

The H-D pistons I installed have the teflon coating on the skirts like the TC-88 pistons......very cool. And a good price compared to aftermarket pistons.