98 evo question : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

head · 10-14-2009, 11:48 PM

i posted a week ago or so about a problem but i need to give some more info.

ive got a 98 flhr with 124,000 miles. a month or so back, i was getting a ticking noise from the bottom side. realized that i hadnt replaced my lifters since 30,000 miles when i had an ev23 cam installed.either way, i knew it was time for lifters. my mechanic seemed to think that was the noise as well.

put four new lifters in it and replaced rocker box gaskets. since i got the bike back,my reserve fuel is now kicking in at 125 miles rather than 160 miles riding two up all the time. has done this on every tank since the lifters. when i got it out of the shop it was idling low and seemed a little sluggish. i called the shop and asked if maybe the timing was set low which i thought would also have dropped the idle rpm. he said that he marked it and it was set like before. then i noticed i was getting oil coming out of the carb and into the breather. my head vent are seperate from my air cleaner. the bike is also spitting back through the carb right above idle.

i had a top end done at 80,000 miles. they are telling me its time again. my question is if there is anything that could have been done at the lifter install to cause all of this to happen at once? anything like the veos switch under the tank or anything along those lines?

i really need my bike and cant afford the dough to do a top end right now. would appreciate any ideas.

head

gsxrboy96 · 10-15-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by head

i posted a week ago or so about a problem but i need to give some more info.

ive got a 98 flhr with 124,000 miles. a month or so back, i was getting a ticking noise from the bottom side. realized that i hadnt replaced my lifters since 30,000 miles when i had an ev23 cam installed.either way, i knew it was time for lifters. my mechanic seemed to think that was the noise as well.

put four new lifters in it and replaced rocker box gaskets. since i got the bike back,my reserve fuel is now kicking in at 125 miles rather than 160 miles riding two up all the time. has done this on every tank since the lifters. when i got it out of the shop it was idling low and seemed a little sluggish. i called the shop and asked if maybe the timing was set low which i thought would also have dropped the idle rpm. he said that he marked it and it was set like before. then i noticed i was getting oil coming out of the carb and into the breather. my head vent are seperate from my air cleaner. the bike is also spitting back through the carb right above idle.

i had a top end done at 80,000 miles. they are telling me its time again. my question is if there is anything that could have been done at the lifter install to cause all of this to happen at once? anything like the veos switch under the tank or anything along those lines?

i really need my bike and cant afford the dough to do a top end right now. would appreciate any ideas.

head

WHen he changed the lifters, i dont see why the timing would have changed? if he never removed the nose cone, the timiming would not have changed, period, The only thing that comes to mind is that he didnt plug the voes back up, but im almost sure the bike would nearly not run if that wasnt plugged up. ALso, i dont know if this would cause your bad fuel economy or not, but maybe its a bad intake seal, the one that the carb slids into? thats really all i can think of for what you had done?

p.s sounds like your indy is a lil full of sh*t if he saying he marked it and never took it apart,

head · 10-15-2009, 02:13 PM

my mistake for not mentioning that i had a small oil leak in the nose cone and asked him to replace the seal. also replaced the cam bearing while we were in there as well.

head

Geezer-Glide · 10-15-2009, 03:19 PM

I don't think it would run if the cam was one tooth off of alignment, but your oil pump would mess up and do wierd stuff it it wasn't lined up properly. I'd pull the nose cone and check the gear alignment. Make sure the trigger wheel is tight too. Then check the timing. Obviously, sumpin' ain't right!!

blackjackcustms · 10-15-2009, 06:21 PM

You must remove the cam in order to replce the lifters, unless you have quick install p-rods, or you take the whole rockerboxes assembly apart. It is possible the cam timing is wrong, as I think one tooth equals about 4 deg. You might have altered timing, even with the plate marked. If the tech moved it some that might kill your timing. The cam gear being one tooth off would definately cause spitting back through the carb, and the fuel mileage drop also.

head · 10-15-2009, 08:34 PM

i do not have adjustable push rods. plus, my rocker boxes were leaking. so, i know that was done.

head

head · 10-18-2009, 07:37 PM

noticed over the last few days tha the starter is kicking back when cranking the bike. yet another reason to think the cam is off a tooth. do you guys agree?

head

blackjackcustms · 10-18-2009, 10:36 PM

easy enough to check. if there's a doubt, go back to the shop that did the work, and hang around while they take it apart, so you can watch 'em. Also, you could have 'em do a compression test, if it's off, then you'll definately want to check the cam gear.

head · 10-19-2009, 01:48 PM

thanks for that info. much appreciated. they did do a compression check when i took it back initially. 150 and 155 if that sounds right. thats what they based the info on when telling me that it needed a top end done on it.

actually heading to the shop this afternoon to talk with them again about it.

head

rickr01 · 10-20-2009, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackjackcustms

You must remove the cam in order to replce the lifters, unless you have quick install p-rods, or you take the whole rockerboxes assembly apart. It is possible the cam timing is wrong, as I think one tooth equals about 4 deg. You might have altered timing, even with the plate marked. If the tech moved it some that might kill your timing. The cam gear being one tooth off would definately cause spitting back through the carb, and the fuel mileage drop also.

You can replace the lifters by just pulling the cam when you don't have adjustable push rods? I didn't realize that. I have always gone through the hassle of pulling the rocker boxes which meant removing the tank etc. Can you please verify that? Thanks alot!

blackjackcustms · 10-20-2009, 09:58 PM

If you have adjustables, or if you cut the stock p-rods out with bolt cutters, and replace them with adjustables, you can take the whole cam chest apart without touching the rockerboxes. You may have misread me, you cannot do this with one piece p-rods, unless you cut them out as above. Most of the time we just cut 'em out, as the extra money is offset by the price of gaskets, and labor, to pay for the adjustables, and later you will be able to redo it, with the adjustables.

LADave · 10-21-2009, 07:33 AM

You had a lot of work done...

Marking the timing plate and timing the bike are two different things. To me, it sounds like the mechanic that did the work, missed the mark. That would explain the symptoms you're describing. Poor fuel mileage, spitting back through the carb, kick-back on the starter, the lower idle speed, etc. can all be a problem with too much advance on the ignition timing.

Take it back and have them set the ignition timing to specs.

rickr01 · 10-21-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackjackcustms

If you have adjustables, or if you cut the stock p-rods out with bolt cutters, and replace them with adjustables, you can take the whole cam chest apart without touching the rockerboxes. You may have misread me, you cannot do this with one piece p-rods, unless you cut them out as above. Most of the time we just cut 'em out, as the extra money is offset by the price of gaskets, and labor, to pay for the adjustables, and later you will be able to redo it, with the adjustables.

Thanks. Yes I must have misread the post. Thats what I thought.

head · 10-23-2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LADave

You had a lot of work done...

Marking the timing plate and timing the bike are two different things. To me, it sounds like the mechanic that did the work, missed the mark. That would explain the symptoms you're describing. Poor fuel mileage, spitting back through the carb, kick-back on the starter, the lower idle speed, etc. can all be a problem with too much advance on the ignition timing.

Take it back and have them set the ignition timing to specs.

thanks for your idea about the timing. after i spoke with the shop on monday, they were sticking to their guns that it just needed a top end. i knew better than that.

called my old wrench about 40 miles away and asked him if he'd check my timing for me. i rode it right over and the timing was way low(which was my original thoughts). he got it set and its running great again. will update on what the mileage does shortly when i run out a tank of gas.

head

Chopperman224 · 10-30-2009, 06:48 AM

Sounds to me like you need to stick with your old wrench instead of those authorized parts changers that went to a tech school for six months and call themselfs mechanics.