Oil filter

[lschultz]

My son sent me this link http://www.kandpengineering.com?# anybody know anything about these oil filters?

[DeluxeAl]

Yeah did a lot of research on these filters. People either seem to love them or hate them (snake oil kind of statements). But at $10-$12 bucks for a filter, they seem to make sense even at $200. I guess I'm still on the fence and need more data before I took the plunge, but certainly makes sense to have a reusable one.

But if change your oil/filter every 3000 miles you would need to go 60k miles before you broke even. That's a long way for me, usually trade or sell my bikes before that. But you could save the filter before you sell the bike and then sell the filter on Ebay or something.

The more hp/torque claims....hmmmm...

[fish.head]

I've been looking at the ones from Scotts, Pegasus, and Pure One. The housings look different but the filter element looks the same except for the number of magnets.

I like the idea of flowing more oil so all (or most all) of the oil is filtered all the time, even at startup.

I tend to agree that there may be slight hp / torque gains...

[Steve Handy]

Originally Posted by lschultz

My son sent me this link http://www.kandpengineering.com?# anybody know anything about these oil filters?

I used that style in my race cars for years...I got a similar unit for my bagger ...
I think they are a good system

[Lance03]

I'm running this oil filter on my 07' Street Glide, and I really like it

[robby dmax]

i also have one and i think its great and it even looks good too!!!!!!!!
would buy again too!

[george douglas]

I personally would not use these on any street vehicles unless I was to follow up with an oil analysis to assure they are actually filtering well. I did some checking on their site and the test method they are using is for water not oil. I have copied in the test method they stated on their site below. I am not slamming them because I sell filters, but expressing my opinion based on logic. These filters are used mostly in racing where filtration takes a back seat to good oil flow and not good filtration. In racing applications even air filters that are used only catch big stuff as air flow and oil flow is more important than protecting the engine. Why doesn't this company use beta and efficiency ratings to rate their filters? Got to admit though that these are real nice looking pieces of machining.
george

ASTM F316
1. Scope


1.1 These test methods cover the determination of two of the pore size properties of membrane filters with maximum pore sizes from 0.1 to 15.0 m.

1.2 Test Method A presents a test method for measuring the maximum limiting pore diameter of nonfibrous membranes. The limiting diameter is the diameter of a circle having the same area as the smallest section of a given pore ().

1.3 Test Method B measures the relative abundance of a specified pore size in a membrane, defined in terms of the limiting diameter.

1.4 The analyst should be aware that adequate collaborative data for bias statements as required by Practice D 2777 is not provided. See the precision and bias section for details.

1.5 This standard may involve hazardous materials, operations, and equipment. This standard does not purport to address all of the safety concerns, if any, associated with its use. It is the responsibility of the user of this standard to establish appropriate safety and health practices and determine the applicability of regulatory limitations prior to use.


2. Referenced Documents


ASTM Standards
D1129 Terminology Relating to Water
D1193 Specification for Reagent Water
D2777 Practice for Determination of Precision and Bias of Applicable Methods of Committee D19 on Water
E128 Test Method for Maximum Pore Diameter and Permeability of Rigid Porous Filters for Laboratory Use




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Index Terms

pore; size; membrane; filters; nonfibrous; ICS Number Code 59.080.70 (Geotextiles)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DOI: 10.1520/F0316-03

ASTM International is a member of CrossRef.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ASTM F316 (Water Testing Standards)
Citing ASTM Standards

[ktwillys]

Nice post George.. I got to go with you on this one..
I ran funny cars in the late 70's for several years and we never cared about the motor life as it was torn down after every run..
My question is the same as yours where this filter is concerned..
What is size debris is the filter capable of traping...
flow vs filtering is the important question on a street machine..

it looks like it is just a K&N type filter that has been put into a oil filter element.. very good idea for race motors but not so sure about street.
It does look like it may aid in the oil cooling some what too..

I would like to see some cold hard data about the filtering abilities before spending that kind of money... and if it was as good as the paper filters then sure ....


personaly I would prefer to find a larger filter for my motor than a higher flowing filter...


Just thought I would add that you cannot access any of their sites information.. either it is down or no longer availible..

[Mtclassic]

just for info K&P filter just got approved for aviation and it is the same filter element as their motorcycle filters. Good bad or indifferent I know the aviation standards are pretty high.

[Mtclassic]

I will be sending in a sample to Blackstone shortly, to see how the K&P and Valvoline vr1straight 50 is holding up after 5000 miles.
I have been using the K&P for a while (4 changes) and here is what I notice. I used to get a little glob or graphite looking stuff on my drain plug magnet (you squish it between your fingers and it was soft yet stuck to the magnet) and with the K&P the drain plug magnet is clean as can be. Oil pressure also builds almost instantly after an oil change or on cold start up. I used to try and prefill my filters and it would still take a few seconds for the pressure guage and pressure light (I have both) to indicate pressure. With the K&P hit the starter and the light goes out and the guage goes up.

I got mine for $119 so for me it was worth it (put a fair amount of miles on, 72K on my 04). I am the type that always cut my filters open to see what was going on inside the motor. The K&P saves me a ton of time.

[george douglas]

Originally Posted by Mtclassic

just for info K&P filter just got approved for aviation and it is the same filter element as their motorcycle filters. Good bad or indifferent I know the aviation standards are pretty high.

Where is your data on the avaition approval? Does it carry an STC? I own my own airplane and would be interested to see if it applies to my engine. Most likely if approved it would be for early Continental engines that do not use an oil filter, but a screen just like early Volkswagon air cooled engines use. The problem I see with this filter is the lack of standard industry testing. They could be the best thing since sliced bread so why not show the data as it doesn't cost that much to have their product independently tested. As far as aviation standards go don't assume that a product is good jsut because it is approved. There is many aviation type products that never make it to market that are far superior to existing products, due mostly to expensive product liabilty cost.
george

[Mtclassic]

http://www.challengeraviation.com/Oi...neappguide.pdf

[Mtclassic]

I decided to change oil early at 3400 miles (I was going to let it go to 5K) just to see, so the sample will go out Monday. this is the 5th oil change so over 1/2 paid for LOL.

[george douglas]

Originally Posted by Mtclassic

http://www.challengeraviation.com/Oi...neappguide.pdf

Thanks for the link. They still do not post any technical data as far as filtration ratings go. Aircraft can get by with less filtration than a street vehicle can as some engines only have oil screens to catch the big stuff. All the testimonials were based on what the operator felt they gained in performance with no mention of protection for the engine. The FAA approval only looks at the quality of the part and that it would not cause a safety of flight problem and not if a product will make an engine last longer These filters do look like they have plenty of quality though. I did notice that these aircraft filters do have an internal by-pass valve and I don't believe the ones for street vehicles do. The proof is is in performing some oil analysis to see if they really do a good job and if they proved out then it would come down to economics of how long it would take to break even. Just my thoughts is all.
george

[Mtclassic]

motorcycle ones have a bypass as well, it is just a ball bearing spring set up. The owner and engineer of K&P told me they were the same filters. I met him in Sturgis. I suppose he could have been pulling my leg, but no reason to as I had already had my filter for several months and told him so at the start of our conversation. I should have results back from Blackstone with in a week or so. What should I be looking for as far as the analysis goes?