08 sportster primary/transmission

[67hat34c]

I changed to Amsoil 20/50 at 1000 mile service and again at 5000. I noted a fair amount of stuff on the magnetic plug at the 5k and at 7500 had about the same amount. So at 7500 I changed to Spectro Heavy Duty Primary lube which was recommended by several others on another vtwin forum, HD Talking. Well I just changed it at 10k so I could compare it with same miles on the oil, 2500. Well the Spectro failed in my opinion. It had 2 to 3x the amount of stuff on the plug than it did on the last 2 changes and the oil did have a little tint to it were it was clean on the prior 2 changes.

I did not take any digital photos on any of the changes but I can remember well enough.

I am switching back to Amsoil 20/50.

[dynarule]

Originally Posted by 67hat34c

I changed to Amsoil 20/50 at 1000 mile service and again at 5000.* I noted a fair amount of stuff on the magnetic plug at the 5k* and at 7500 had about the same amount.* So at 7500 I changed to Spectro Heavy Duty Primary lube which was recommended by several others on another vtwin forum, HD Talking.* Well I just changed it at 10k so I could compare it with same miles on the oil, 2500.** Well the Spectro failed in my opinion.* It had 2 to 3x the amount of stuff on the plug than it did on the last 2 changes and the oil did* have a little tint to it were it was clean on the prior 2 changes.* I did not take any digital photos on any of the changes but I can remember well enough.* I am switching back to Amsoil 20/50.

First off, The spectro primary oil isnt made to be used in a tranny,you need to use a GL4 gear oil in the sportster tranny,not a primary oil or even a GL5 gear oil, a GL5 will make the clutch slip and a primary oil aint stout enough for the gears in a tranny, Stick with a GL4 or lower. You could just buy a MANUAL TRANS OIL to use, they are GL3 and GL4.

[FX-Rider]

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[67hat34c]

Dynarule, The spectro Primary lube is made specificaly for the sportster and it appears it did not do as good a job as the amsoil 20/50.

http://www.spectro-oils.com/products...products=sport

[dynarule]

Originally Posted by 67hat34c

Dynarule, The spectro Primary lube is made specificaly for the sportster and it appears it did not do as good a job as the amsoil 20/50.

http://www.spectro-oils.com/products...products=sport

It doesnt realy say anything about beeing aproved for tran gears, Maybe a type O ???

[67hat34c]

Well their ad says developed for sportsters and since sportsters have only one sump for trans and primary I would guess you could assume it is a light gear lube, 84w. The god of the HD Talking Site says to use it so I tried it and was disappointed with the results.

Hd says use their HD+ or 20/50 synthetic. I used amsoil 20/50 at 1k change then again at 2500 when I adjusted the clutch. Changed again at 5k since I wanted to get I on an even number with the engine and do it every 5k. Then I broke out and changed at 7500 to the spectro on the above recommendations. Since i had 2 prior changes at 2500 ea on the amsoil and remembered what the plug looked like I thought I would try the Spectro and put same miles on it. Wish I would have taken digital photos as proof but no matter at least I know and will not use it again.

So you think a light gear lube without the extra friction modifiers will work? I want to stick to Synthetics so with that in mind which one do you reccomend?

[dynarule]

Originally Posted by 67hat34c

Well their ad says developed for sportsters and since sportsters have only one sump for trans and primary I would guess you could assume it is a light gear lube, 84w. The god of the HD Talking Site says to use it so I tried it and was disappointed with the results.

Hd says use their HD+ or 20/50 synthetic. I used amsoil 20/50 at 1k change then again at 2500 when I adjusted the clutch. Changed again at 5k since I wanted to get I on an even number with the engine and do it every 5k. Then I broke out and changed at 7500 to the spectro on the above recommendations. Since i had 2 prior changes at 2500 ea on the amsoil and remembered what the plug looked like I thought I would try the Spectro and put same miles on it. Wish I would have taken digital photos as proof but no matter at least I know and will not use it again.

So you think a light gear lube without the extra friction modifiers will work? I want to stick to Synthetics so with that in mind which one do you reccomend?

If you look at RED LINE, there MTL is a 70w80 GL4 gear oil that will work with the wet clutch. Many here use it in there primary's with good luck. It is allso relabled as there V-twin primary oil but is the exact same stuff with a diff lable. You may want to check with amsoil about there manual trans oil to see if its ok to use with the wet clutch. Beeing a sporty it does kinda close some doors for ya on oil.

BTW I just checked the red line site and they have a straight 80w gear oil with shock proof for bikes and it says wet clutch safe.

[67hat34c]

I emailed amsoil.

Redline has good stuff so I will also ck with them.

[george douglas]

Originally Posted by 67hat34c

I emailed amsoil.

Redline has good stuff so I will also ck with them.

20w 50 motorcycle specific oil is all you need in that bike. HD has been using for years a 20w 50 for that application. Now this might have changed over the last year or so since they came out with their formula + oil, which is just a simple staight grade 50 mineral oil. I personally see no need to use a gearlube with a wet clutch and feel it may cause trouble over time. Positraction differentials use gearlubes and they have a wet clutch pack in them, but they also require a special friction modifier additive to be added so they don't chatter. What are you trying to gain by straying away from the OEM recommendation? I know we all try different things with our bikes, but generally we are trying to gain something.
george

[dynarule]

I think he is after something a liitle more robust for the tranny that will still be ok for the clutch. after all, the MOCO recomends F+ in the tranny of our big twins but most everybody,including myself, prefer a GL5 gear oil. That being said, RED LINE oil has there primary lube that is the same stuff as there MTL which is a GL4 gear oil just relabled. this was confirmed by there own tech when i had called them. So i dont see why this wouldnt work good in a sportster, or even if Amsoil's GL4 manual trans oil would perform the same as Red line as far as wet clutch compatibility. Just thinking out loud.

[george douglas]

Originally Posted by dynarule

I think he is after something a liitle more robust for the tranny that will still be ok for the clutch. after all, the MOCO recomends F+ in the tranny of our big twins but most everybody,including myself, prefer a GL5 gear oil. That being said, RED LINE oil has there primary lube that is the same stuff as there MTL which is a GL4 gear oil just relabled. this was confirmed by there own tech when i had called them. So i dont see why this wouldnt work good in a sportster, or even if Amsoil's GL4 manual trans oil would perform the same as Red line as far as wet clutch compatibility. Just thinking out loud.

Dynarule, Sorry to hear about your job loss. Try and stay positive until things get better.

Just my opinion about using a gearlube in the primary, as I see no benefit at all and only the downside with potential clutch problems. With a GL-4 gearlube you don't have extreme pressure additives like in a GL-5, but I don't see the advantage to using them. The tranny in that bike, due to the way the gears are cut, does not require the use of gearlubes period and that is why harley has never used a gearlube right from the factory in any of the sportsters. The tranny in your bike does not require a gearlube either, but most of us like a gearlube because it seems to bring the noise level down some and helps in some cases with shifting and in most cases it just makes us feel better.
george

[dynarule]

Originally Posted by george douglas

Dynarule, Sorry to hear about your job loss. Try and stay positive until things get better.

Just my opinion about using a gearlube in the primary, as I see no benefit at all and only the downside with potential clutch problems. With a GL-4 gearlube you don't have extreme pressure additives like in a GL-5, but I don't see the advantage to using them. The tranny in that bike, due to the way the gears are cut, does not require the use of gearlubes period and that is why harley has never used a gearlube right from the factory in any of the sportsters. The tranny in your bike does not require a gearlube either, but most of us like a gearlube because it seems to bring the noise level down some and helps in some cases with shifting and in most cases it just makes us feel better.
george

Your pretty much right on this but on a side note, When i had the F+ in my tranny for the first 10k, my drain plug allways had metal on the magnet but when i switched to a GL5 85w140 gear oil it all went away so it does seem to protect the gears better and the better shifting is an added bonus. HD used to sell there own gear oil and a different primary oil and allso had a sport trans fluid (not sure what that was) but then came out with this F+ Which is Supposedly a GL1 gear oil that works in everything according to them. Of all the different things i have tried in my primary the F+ seems to work the best for me as far as the metal on the drain plug.

[george douglas]

Originally Posted by dynarule

Your pretty much right on this but on a side note, When i had the F+ in my tranny for the first 10k, my drain plug allways had metal on the magnet but when i switched to a GL5 85w140 gear oil it all went away so it does seem to protect the gears better and the better shifting is an added bonus. HD used to sell there own gear oil and a different primary oil and allso had a sport trans fluid (not sure what that was) but then came out with this F+ Which is Supposedly a GL1 gear oil that works in everything according to them. Of all the different things i have tried in my primary the F+ seems to work the best for me as far as the metal on the drain plug.

The sports tran fluid is what I was talking about and it is just a
20w 50 oil and the formula + fluid is just a 50 weight mineral oil with a few additives in it. The metal on the drain plug can be mis-leading and sometimes the wrong fluid can get blamed or given credit based on the naked eye. If a tranny is making metal no fluid is going to totally stop it. What we see many times is the break-in debris and assembly trash that finally makes it's way to the magnet and at each service you eventually remove most of it by cleaning the plug.
george

[dynarule]

Originally Posted by george douglas

The sports tran fluid is what I was talking about and it is just a
20w 50 oil and the formula + fluid is just a 50 weight mineral oil with a few additives in it. The metal on the drain plug can be mis-leading and sometimes the wrong fluid can get blamed or given credit based on the naked eye. If a tranny is making metal no fluid is going to totally stop it. What we see many times is the break-in debris and assembly trash that finally makes it's way to the magnet and at each service you eventually remove most of it by cleaning the plug.
george

It just seems to make better sense to me that a gear oil would be better in a tranny than a motor oil (as far as the gears and bearings) but you still gotta deal with the clutch in a sporty. Are you using a gear oil or the 20w50 engine oil in your tranny? Back in the day when i was wrenching on cars, Ford used to recomend an ATF in there manual trans in the explorer and light duty trucks and i had many come in with problems that needed to be rebuilt. It seemed that all the gears were just ground up over time, A short time that is. We allways refilled the new ones with gear and they never had any more problems even after 200k. I know this is not apples to apples but but kinda the same principle.

[george douglas]

Originally Posted by dynarule

It just seems to make better sense to me that a gear oil would be better in a tranny than a motor oil (as far as the gears and bearings) but you still gotta deal with the clutch in a sporty. Are you using a gear oil or the 20w50 engine oil in your tranny? Back in the day when i was wrenching on cars, Ford used to recomend an ATF in there manual trans in the explorer and light duty trucks and i had many come in with problems that needed to be rebuilt. It seemed that all the gears were just ground up over time, A short time that is. We allways refilled the new ones with gear and they never had any more problems even after 200k. I know this is not apples to apples but but kinda the same principle.

Ford is still using ATF in all their truck manual tranny's and cars with manual transmissions and they are not having any issues. This has been going on for a long time and if it didn't work as far as causing warranty issues they would have changed to gearlube many years ago. Most GM manual tranny's use a 5w 30 motor oil in them called syncromesh fluid. Gearlube is over kill and in some automotive applications can cause syncros to wear out simply due to the viscosity being to thick. Not trying to argue over this or beat it to death, but the type of gears used in a tranny dictate what type of fluid is required by the design engineers and in some applications the owner can actually make things worse by using the wrong product. It might seem like the right thing to do at the momment, but over time it can cause problems.
george