Noob needs help with maps and tuning : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

Brassnadz · 11-18-2012, 11:06 PM

Just traded in my 05 Sporty for a 09 Heritage with the 96" engine. This thing was bone stock down to the original factory pipes with 11,000 on the clock, so of course, I had to pay my taxes which consisted of the SE Heavy Breather, Vance & Hines 2 into 1 Pro Pipe, and of course, the Screamin Eagle Pro EFI Super Tuner with the software and cables. Unfortunately the tuner came with no instructions. Sweet huh? The dealer installed all the parts and performed several pulls on the dyno.

Anyhow, my brother and I got to messing with it and managed to get a screen with the AF mixtures in several boxes and almost all read the same. In each square was the reading 13.7, the exceptions being in the very high RPM ranges where they varied from 13.2 to 13.4. These started at 5500 RPM to 6000 RPM. Also on the printout it says the table is Air-Fuel Ratio, but across the top of the box it says MAP(kPa)

It would seem to me that if done correctly the numbers wouldnt be mostly all the same, but it wouldnt be the first time I was wrong.

Bottom line is do I need a new map, and if so, how do i go about getting it and flashing my computer with it?

Thanks in advance for helping a newbie. I had carbs down to a science on the old Sporty. Dealer said it was the fastest 883/1200 he has ridden in a long time, and gave me 5000 on the trade, came down a grand on the Heritage and threw in the tuner, however I had to buy the cables and software. Just wish it had an instruction manual besides the one on the disc. Something about trying to look up the info on a disk that just doesnt work for me. Old I guess.....

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask, It would seem like i would need to, but if I were to remove the baffles in the pipe, would I need to reflash the ECM? I say yes, my brother says no since all the numbers are the same. Which of us is correct?

<G Man> · 11-19-2012, 01:08 AM

With a closed loop tuner, there should be no need to flash the ECM. It sounds like the numbers you see are target AFR values for the closed loop system. The MAP would refer to a sensor reading (Manifold Absolute Pressure).

Even without a manual, there should be help info available within the software. There is also a lot of information already posted in the forums here. Some time spent searching could easily pay off with good knowledge.

Uncle Salty · 11-19-2012, 05:06 AM

My first suggestion is to leave it alone. Take it to someone that knows how to use the software, knows how to tune an engine and has the proper equipment. From reading your post, you are about to make a big mistake.

If you insist on doing it yourself you need to take time to learn the software and have an understanding of tuning theory.

Brassnadz · 11-19-2012, 07:03 AM

Uncle Salty, Smart enough to leave things be until I learn enough to start changing things Thats one of the reasons Im here. Its also one of the reasons I bought the cables and software though. When I get it figured out, I want to tune it myself for reliability/drivablity with a bit of added power just for kicks.

Gman, is closed loop a good thing, or is there such a thing as open loop? If so, which is the better route?

I know these are noobie questions, and I do appreciate Yalls patience and input. Im trying to work my way through the manual on .PDF on the CD, but I cant stand doing it this way. Give me a real book any day!

Uncle Salty · 11-19-2012, 07:32 AM

I'd read this section and the EFI Discussion section. I have the SERT. I have never used the Screamin Eagle Pro EFI Super Tuner so I don't want to start guessing about how it works. On my '04 Road King I had to install O2 sensors and use a Twin Scan to measure and record data such as A/F ratio, knock sensor activity, etc. It would have been much easier and cheaper to have someone else to tune it but I didn't know a good tuner in this area. There are some very good tuners that are members of this forum. They can help but you have to learn your software before it makes sense.

Brassnadz · 11-19-2012, 08:36 AM

Same problem here as far as no good tuners. I have a sneaking suspicion the just loaded it with a generic tune and sent me on my way. The bike does run alot better, but it doesn't seem like its up to its full potential. I will read up on your link and try to learn something from it. I was under the impression that you could download a map with your equipment or close to it and flash the computer with it. My only concern is that if I get it too rich, I will end up with fouled plugs. Too lean and I will damage the engine. Thanks for the info.

<G Man> · 11-19-2012, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brassnadz

Uncle Salty, Smart enough to leave things be until I learn enough to start changing things Thats one of the reasons Im here. Its also one of the reasons I bought the cables and software though. When I get it figured out, I want to tune it myself for reliability/drivablity with a bit of added power just for kicks.

Gman, is closed loop a good thing, or is there such a thing as open loop? If so, which is the better route?

I know these are noobie questions, and I do appreciate Yalls patience and input. Im trying to work my way through the manual on .PDF on the CD, but I cant stand doing it this way. Give me a real book any day!

Noob questions are how we learn so don't worry about that. I'm fairly new to this stuff myself so I can relate.

I did a lot of research to understand how my older system works which has no closed loop and truly uses a map to determine fuel delivery. The closed loop system uses sensors in exhaust header to analyze the gases and determine AFR then makes adjustments to achieve the target AFR from your "map". Many systems are hybrid types meaning there is a closed loop range (typically idle and crusing conditions) and an open loop area (heavy load, hard acceleration). I would not be the one to give you specifics on your particular system, but happy to help as much as I can with general points.

In general, my understanding is that closed loop areas are intended to be either not messed with or "self-tuning" with the right tuner device. I think most of the later systems (2009 and later) will all have areas that you can't really make adjustments to without making a lot of system changes.

Somebody with more knowledge will probably come along and check me on this (please).

Brassnadz · 11-20-2012, 09:09 PM

I hear you G Man. Im still reading through the manual on the disc. For what I paid for it, you would think they would give you a real manual like it used to be. Guess im old fashioned but I would prefer to have my manual in a real book form. Its just easier to read it that way instead of having to be on the computer doing it. Oh well, the times sure are changing, aint they?