Zippers Thundermax Auto Tune

[supertechal]

Originally Posted by pfd161

Here is one thing I am encountering....when I go to down shift I occasionally give it a little gas..ie...pull in clutch, give it some gas as shifting, let out clutch. I very often get a cough when I try to give it gas...mostly when shifting out of fifth...

It doesn't get better desite putting hundreds of miles on this map. Also, it will go without decel popping for a while and then out of nowhere it will decel pop...

Understand the bike still rides way better with this and I do like it very much. Just thinking those issues should be getting better with the autotune?

Thanks for any help you can provide.
Dennis

try lowering your decel number in basic setting down by one or two numbers.if it is 10 try 9 or 8 even.this should take care of it.let me know how you make out with this.

[jshepherd]

Originally Posted by supertechal

hello,i think that when you have the wife riding you are not running the bike as hard as when you are by yourself.i know that when i ride with my girl on the back i am alot more tame with the throttle than when i am by myself.also when you ride with your wife are you traveling out on the open road alot more than when you are by yourself?

Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell

I have a question; why is it I can ride 2 up all day long and the engine doesn't seem to get overly hot but when my wife gets off and I ride alone I can feel a definite rise in the temps? I would think it would be just the opposite.
This is not a complaint but a question, the bike is running the best it ever has and I'm averaging 40 something MPG's and I'm fine with that!

Both the riding habits but mainly because the autotune compensates for two up by adding fuel to compensate for added weight (no offense to the Msses). Adding fuel adds cooling removeing or leaning it out creats more heat. And the fact that you don't want to scare to c _ _ p out of your wife!

[Cruisin1966]

Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell

. . . the bike is running the best it ever has and I'm averaging 40 something MPG's and I'm fine with that!

Eddie, what are the particular on your bike and what map did you start with? Any changes to it for better mileage?

I'm lucky to get 32 mpg on my '07 FLHTC (Rinehart TD and map# 393), and that's with the cruising range (25 - 35º, 2500 - 3000 RPM) supposedly set to 14.0 AFR. Can't "tour" like that. Can't get anywhere in decent time and I have to watch the mileage too closely.

[Eddie Haskell]

Originally Posted by Cruisin1966

Eddie, what are the particular on your bike and what map did you start with? Any changes to it for better mileage?

I'm lucky to get 32 mpg on my '07 FLHTC (Rinehart TD and map# 393), and that's with the cruising range (25 - 35º, 2500 - 3000 RPM) supposedly set to 14.0 AFR. Can't "tour" like that. Can't get anywhere in decent time and I have to watch the mileage too closely.

I have a 2007 FLHTCUI equipped with only V&H Oval slip ons and a 2.25 Ness "Big Sucker", I'm running map 394 with absolutley no changes to the map, I loaded the map and then let it warm up to 289 degrees, I did NOT do the IAC Auto tune! The bike didn't run too great at the beginning but the more I rode it the better it has gotten and right now it runs about as good as it ever has and I'm happy with the results.

[Cruisin1966]

Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell

I have a 2007 FLHTCUI equipped with only V&H Oval slip ons and a 2.25 Ness "Big Sucker", I'm running map 394 with absolutley no changes to the map, I loaded the map and then let it warm up to 289 degrees, I did NOT do the IAC Auto tune! The bike didn't run too great at the beginning but the more I rode it the better it has gotten and right now it runs about as good as it ever has and I'm happy with the results.

Looked at the map, which is virtually identical to mine except the stock headers vs. true duals and the "depth" of the air filter. That, and I leaned out the cruising just a hair. I have the Big Sucker as well. Is it possible that using #393 with the "defined" 2.75" air filter is causing part of my problem? It would be better if they had a true dual w/ 2.25", which would match more closely. I did the warm up as well, no Auto-IAC. I've ridden about 1000 miles with the popping/banging on decel and the crappy mileage.

Is there any benefit to starting over with map #394 and letting it adjust for the true duals?

[Eddie Haskell]

Originally Posted by Cruisin1966

Looked at the map, which is virtually identical to mine except the stock headers vs. true duals and the "depth" of the air filter. That, and I leaned out the cruising just a hair. I have the Big Sucker as well. Is it possible that using #393 with the "defined" 2.75" air filter is causing part of my problem? It would be better if they had a true dual w/ 2.25", which would match more closely. I did the warm up as well, no Auto-IAC. I've ridden about 1000 miles with the popping/banging on decel and the crappy mileage.

Is there any benefit to starting over with map #394 and letting it adjust for the true duals?

Mine isn't an exact match either (no slip ons option), If the map thinks it's getting more air (2.75) I'm sure it would add more fuel. This may sound stupid but have you measured your AC?

[Cruisin1966]

Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell

Mine isn't an exact match either (no slip ons option), If the map thinks it's getting more air (2.75) I'm sure it would add more fuel. This may sound stupid but have you measured your AC?

Should I? LOL I just assumed because you also had the Ness Big Sucker that when you mentioned 2.25", that's what I would have as well. I can check when I get home.

#393 seemed like a good fit, with the Rinehart true duals, Stage I air (Big Sucker) and otherwise stock 96" bike

[Eddie Haskell]

Originally Posted by Cruisin1966

Should I? LOL I just assumed because you also had the Ness Big Sucker that when you mentioned 2.25", that's what I would have as well. I can check when I get home.

#393 seemed like a good fit, with the Rinehart true duals, Stage I air (Big Sucker) and otherwise stock 96" bike

I assumed my "Big Sucker" would be 2.75" but before I installed it I measured it...2.25" and map 393 is for the larger AC, I wouldn't know what to tell you if it was 2.25 because there is no map with duals and 2.25

[Cruisin1966]

Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell

I assumed my "Big Sucker" would be 2.75" but before I installed it I measured it...2.25" and map 393 is for the larger AC, I wouldn't know what to tell you if it was 2.25 because there is no map with duals and 2.25

LOL, exactly my dilemma. Either way, I'm screwed. And not in the way I enjoy
.

[Warhawk]

I wonder about how closely the Bosch O2 sensors are calibrated, and what is the acceptable variation in them?

For example, if the acceptable range is +/- .5 on the AFR ratio, set #1 being on the rich side and set #2 being on the lean side.

Then when set #1 is set for and AFR of 13.1, it would actually deliver 12.6

And set #2 set for 13.1 would deliver 13.6

Now lets suppose you get a lean sensor in the rear cylinder and a rich sensor up front? I doubt that anyone takes the time to match them.

I have no idea what the calibration of these is, or the acceptable variation. But I'll bet it's published somewhere.

[Eddie Haskell]

Originally Posted by Cruisin1966

LOL, exactly my dilemma. Either way, I'm screwed. And not in the way I enjoy
.

If I had to choose between my intake being correct or my exhaust I would think the intake would have a bigger impact on the mixture but what do I know

[otterhigh2]

Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell

If I had to choose between my intake being correct or my exhaust I would think the intake would have a bigger impact on the mixture but what do I know

Actually, according to Thunderheart, air cleaner isn't even in the top 5 things to consider in choosing a map.

[otterhigh2]

Originally Posted by Warhawk

I wonder about how closely the Bosch O2 sensors are calibrated, and what is the acceptable variation in them?

For example, if the acceptable range is +/- .5 on the AFR ratio, set #1 being on the rich side and set #2 being on the lean side.

Then when set #1 is set for and AFR of 13.1, it would actually deliver 12.6

And set #2 set for 13.1 would deliver 13.6

Now lets suppose you get a lean sensor in the rear cylinder and a rich sensor up front? I doubt that anyone takes the time to match them.

I have no idea what the calibration of these is, or the acceptable variation. But I'll bet it's published somewhere.

If they weren't at least close then there sure would be a lot of poor running Volkswagon Jettas around. They get them in huge lots, not pairs. If the O2 sensor isn't working properly, it will throw a code. I don't know how it works or how it knows, but one of the guys that designed the TMAT told me that and I'm not smart enough to argue with him.

[supertechal]

Originally Posted by otterhigh2

If they weren't at least close then there sure would be a lot of poor running Volkswagon Jettas around. They get them in huge lots, not pairs. If the O2 sensor isn't working properly, it will throw a code. I don't know how it works or how it knows, but one of the guys that designed the TMAT told me that and I'm not smart enough to argue with him.

otterhigh2,that is very funny to hear you say that. i knew these were from volkswagens but didn't know if i should say so. i have been working on vw's for 23 years now.in 1998 volkswagen introduced a new breed of 02 sensors.they were much faster and more reliable.they were called planar o2 sensors.they were only 4 wire sensors.then came the 5 wire wide band o2 sensors.they are a step up from the planar o2 sensors.i can tell everyone that these new 5 wire wide band sensors are extremely acurate and very very reliable!

[supertechal]

Originally Posted by supertechal

otterhigh2,that is very funny to hear you say that. i knew these were from volkswagens but didn't know if i should say so. i have been working on vw's for 23 years now.in 1998 volkswagen introduced a new breed of 02 sensors.they were much faster and more reliable.they were called planar o2 sensors.they were only 4 wire sensors.then came the 5 wire wide band o2 sensors.they are a step up from the planar o2 sensors.i can tell everyone that these new 5 wire wide band sensors are extremely acurate and very very reliable!

i found this info that should help better explain how the sensors operate,and what they are made up of
Heated planar sensors use a flat ceramic zirconia element, 1.5-mm thick, rather than the tubular ceramic 'thimble' used in previous O2 sensors. The electrodes, conductive layer of ceramic, insulation and heater are all laminated together on a single strip, which makes it smaller and lighter and more resistant to contamination. The heater element also uses less electricity and brings the sensor up to operating temperature (625-650 degrees Fahrenheit) in 10 seconds, which allows it to send accurate air/fuel ratio readings to the vehicle's engine management system while the vehicle is still warming up. This helps control cold-start emissions.

First used in the 1998 2.0 liter Volkswagen Beetle, the planar sensor is now being used in several domestic and import vehicles. They are ready to send signals faster and are more durable, with a solid ceramic sealant that retains the sensor element within the sensor casing and a dual-wall guard tube that protects the sensor element against excessive thermal or physical stress. Otherwise, these sensors function much like the earlier heated O2 sensor, sending higher or lower voltage signals - quickly - to the engine management system if the exhaust is either too rich or too lean.

Planar sensors use four wires running to a spade-type connector. One wire is the signal, one wire is ground, one wire is the heater element positive, and the fourth wire is heater element ground. Within the next few years, the planar sensor is expected to account for more than 50 percent of all new O2 sensor applications.

Infinitely Variable Readings

The heated wide-band sensor, installed mostly in imports, takes the planar sensor concept further, and adds a tiny "oxygen pump" to the planar strip to produce a "dual sensing element."

The wide-band sensor can actually measure the air/fuel ratio, and produces a variable signal directly proportional to the air/fuel ratio, rather than switching back and forth between rich or lean. This sensor sends a gradually changing signal, from very rich all the way to extremely lean, allowing the engine management system to add or subtract fuel as needed to maintain the optimum performance level.

The wide-band sensor uses five or more wires in a spade-type connector, rather than the three or four used by previous heated and heated planar sensors. One wire is the signal, one is signal wire ground, one wire is the heater element positive, one wire is for heater element ground. The fifth wire is for the "oxygen pump" signal wire output, and if it has a possible sixth wire, that is the "oxygen pump" input.

Planar sensors can be diagnosed for proper function with the same techniques used for earlier heated sensors. Wide-band sensors currently can only be diagnosed with a scan tool through the vehicle's on-board diagnostic system, and exact methods vary with each vehicle.

Make sure that you replace a heated planar sensor with a new planar sensor - if this type of sensor was originally installed and is called for by the vehicle manufacturer, the engine management system requires the rapid start-up and sensitivity of the planar sensor. And if you encounter an O2 sensor with five or more wires it is a wide-band sensor. Replace this wide-band sensor only with a new wide-band sensor, which is essential for proper operation of the engine management system.