Daytona Twin-Tech TCFI tuning

[dirty1]

So is ANYONE having sucess with aftermarket throttle bodies and the DTT ???? I am looking at the Gerolomy dual runner??

Thanks, Darren

[LAF]

Originally Posted by dirty1

So is ANYONE having sucess with aftermarket throttle bodies and the DTT ???? I am looking at the Gerolomy dual runner??

Thanks, Darren

Mine seems fine now and been playing a little, REAL HOT here so not a lot of time on it but 50 a day or so. The BC is just awesome and my top end is way open now I do over a Ton every day I ride on my play bridge and now I do a Ton Twenty and got more for sure and it goes there a LOT quicker. I was having some Idle issues and had a huge setup issue in getting it set but all seems well now and the above result sure shows it works.

I think you need to install it, get it close and ride heat/cold cycle the new TB a FEW times before you bring it to operating temp by riding it, then let it cool and go for the final adjustment. I don't think starting it cold watching live view and adjusting it is enough as all intrnal parts are not heated and expanded enough to simulate real riding conditions, again I think a few heat cycles are the answer to setup issues. I mean it is a MASSIVE TB and it needs to become one with the cylinders Honorable grasshopper. I mean it has to vibrate/expand and the seals need to seat and expand a few times until all that aluminum mates up and finds a home. Just my theory on set up issues, because with enough messing around they do set.

[wkohn]

Originally Posted by dirty1

So is ANYONE having sucess with aftermarket throttle bodies and the DTT ???? I am looking at the Gerolomy dual runner??

Thanks, Darren

I think the people at DTT prefer the Gerolomy TB.

[STB]

IAC, TPS are both repeatable, adjustable, linear and steady as a rock for 200 miles and probably 20 start ups over several days using stock TB. Highly suspicious that a bakelite insulator between the TB and manifold will have a beneficial effect on the Kuryakyn 57mm TB function of the IAC.

Starting is effortless and pleasant.

Seabrook

[STB]

Originally Posted by STB

. (These injectors were flowed by Marren Injector Service at 6.1 gps at 58 psi which is HD fuel pressure. Someone told me they should have been flowed over 58 psi to arrive at the standard flow rate. I don't know about that, yet).


STB

"Injectors are commonly rated for flow at 43.5 psi (about 3 bar). The injector flow rating must be corrected based on the actual operating pressure. The Delphi® system runs at approximately 58 psi. " --- Chris Schroeder

Seabrook

[STB]

Originally Posted by wkohn

I think the people at DTT prefer the Gerolomy TB.

According to Chris Schroeder (open mouth, insert foot) who spoke at the Cincinnatti parts show two years ago and again this year, none of the aftermarket throttle bodies are worth diddly squat. However, this year he toned it down after a few suppliers talked to him about his candor aka foot in mouth disease.

Seabrook

[sstan]

I'll bet he made a lot of friends with that comment. It's interesting though since he runs a Gerolamy dual runner on his own bike.

STB - I'm not convinced that a heat sink will fix your IAC stability problems with the Kury TB. The Gerolamy doesn't have any cooling fins for the IAC either but it's rock solid once the "adder tables" are through. Have you talked to Mike Roland about your problems?

I'm glad to hear that you've got the stock Delphi working for you for now anyway. Down the road you might want to consider the Gerolamy - it really breathes.

[GRock]

Gerolamy TB used to be touted by Schroeder as a great improvement. Maybe he had trouble tuning it with his own device!!!

dirty1 and sstan,

We really like the dual runner design for ease of tuning, smoother idle and low speed running and throttle response, especially on larger cube and cam set ups. And we've done more than a few with the TCFI.

[Griffiss]

Well I see a Gerolomy in my very near future, I finally found the bug I have been chasing all summer, the throttle rod in the stock Delphi was cracked now broken. Not gonna buy another Delphi, I have decided on the Gerolomy, now the question is do I increase the injectors to 6.1 and whose, or do I stick with the 4.89 that came in the SE Deuce. A little help please, Rock? S&S 585g and some head work on SE heads, SE pistons, compression slightly over 10.5 to one.

[GRock]

Originally Posted by Griffiss

Well I see a Gerolomy in my very near future, I finally found the bug I have been chasing all summer, the throttle rod in the stock Delphi was cracked now broken. Not gonna buy another Delphi, I have decided on the Gerolomy, now the question is do I increase the injectors to 6.1 and whose, or do I stick with the 4.89 that came in the SE Deuce. A little help please, Rock? S&S 585g and some head work on SE heads, SE pistons, compression slightly over 10.5 to one.

4.89's are perfect for your set up, no need to go with larger. And with the dual runner you will add a higher ceiling to your potential HP, so no worries in that department. Smoother idle and sharper low end and accel with the 4.89's as opposed to the 6.1's. As with a lot of things on strong street bikes, larger is usually not better.

Now for all of you injection junkies, please hear this......
General rule for injector flow rate is to go with lowest flow that will handle your top end and still give you good low speed and idle characteristics. The problem with injectors is that just a small problem with uneven flow or a slight restriction will cost you big time power and raise havoc with tuning. Especially with a lot of bikes that are just driven occcasionally or are seasonal. It doesn't take much for these things to gum up as most fuels now have ethanol in them and this evaporates rather quickly and leaves the heavier compounds behind which can cause problems in engines that are not used every day or are stored. There are many companies that speciallize in blueprinting and flowing injectors and the service is fairly inexpensive. We use a company here in CT for all our racing engines (marine and cycle) that does real inexpensive work on every day injection also. You'd be surprised at the difference you can get from having balanced and equal flow injectors on a bike that had tuning troubles.

A certain cycle company was having troubles with the "stock" injectors and they were blaming poor perfromance on the spray pattern of the injectors. Bullshit!! The injectors were not flowing equally in many cases and were not matched. So the mantra was to trade them out for a different spray pattern. It wasn't the pattern it was a combo between balanced fuel delivery and a higher flow rate that that matched up better with the fuel mapping and the result was better idle, smoother performance and cooler running.

OK, now my hands are tired!!!

All the best.

G

[LAF]

Originally Posted by GRock

4.89's are perfect for your set up, no need to go with larger. And with the dual runner you will add a higher ceiling to your potential HP, so no worries in that department. Smoother idle and sharper low end and accel with the 4.89's as opposed to the 6.1's. As with a lot of things on strong street bikes, larger is usually not better.

Now for all of you injection junkies, please hear this......
General rule for injector flow rate is to go with lowest flow that will handle your top end and still give you good low speed and idle characteristics. The problem with injectors is that just a small problem with uneven flow or a slight restriction will cost you big time power and raise havoc with tuning. Especially with a lot of bikes that are just driven occcasionally or are seasonal. It doesn't take much for these things to gum up as most fuels now have ethanol in them and this evaporates rather quickly and leaves the heavier compounds behind which can cause problems in engines that are not used every day or are stored. There are many companies that speciallize in blueprinting and flowing injectors and the service is fairly inexpensive. We use a company here in CT for all our racing engines (marine and cycle) that does real inexpensive work on every day injection also. You'd be surprised at the difference you can get from having balanced and equal flow injectors on a bike that had tuning troubles.

A certain cycle company was having troubles with the "stock" injectors and they were blaming poor perfromance on the spray pattern of the injectors. Bullshit!! The injectors were not flowing equally in many cases and were not matched. So the mantra was to trade them out for a different spray pattern. It wasn't the pattern it was a combo between balanced fuel delivery and a higher flow rate that that matched up better with the fuel mapping and the result was better idle, smoother performance and cooler running.

OK, now my hands are tired!!!

All the best.

G

So if a guy was to send off a new set of injectors to these folks what kind of cost would be associated with it?

I also listened on your injector/TB lesson when I asked a while back. It is why I went to the BC. More horse power supported with stock injectors, and clean air charges into your cylinders, no air robbing with the fast (ski slope) cams. I think the best move if you are going in for a new TB, but I am a little biased.

Have to say I never thought of injector tunning, or flowing each but if it is not too cost prohibitive I would like to check it out. Since we are talking about only having two yes I see how it could be a issue in tunning.

Oh and while you are here have this low idle thing going on, does not matter punching it or just moving along, come to a stop idle drops, if I can stay stopped long enough it will pick up and then all is well, if not a restart does it.

Also on the bike warm option screen would you not want that at the temp you set IAC at? Default is 95C IAC set at 110C with live view.

And do you have any experience with the auto IAC update?

I been unchecked it and using 30 as nominal IAC in the set up screen.

auto barometric pressure update?

Both of these I wonder how they affect performance of the bike if they are always sampling, seems like something else is gonna suffer.

Still not reliable in the 0-2.5% BLM corrections, correct?

Anything specific on the BC T/B I should use/try/watch out for?

Thanks for the help as always............

[niget2002]

Laf: "Oh and while you are here have this low idle thing going on, does not matter punching it or just moving along, come to a stop idle drops, if I can stay stopped long enough it will pick up and then all is well, if not a restart does it."

I was having this same problem. Call Chris. He will have you open up your Time based IAC start adder table, and he'll tell you how to adjust those numbers to stop this. He actually had me put 0's in all the cells, but then told me that now the bike may idle fast for a few seconds (which it does). He then told me to slowly raise the number in the first cell, tapering the values to 0 to help smooth out the IAC motor.

[STB]

Originally Posted by sstan

I'll bet he made a lot of friends with that comment. It's interesting though since he runs a Gerolamy dual runner on his own bike.

STB - I'm not convinced that a heat sink will fix your IAC stability problems with the Kury TB. The Gerolamy doesn't have any cooling fins for the IAC either but it's rock solid once the "adder tables" are through. Have you talked to Mike Roland about your problems?

I'm glad to hear that you've got the stock Delphi working for you for now anyway. Down the road you might want to consider the Gerolamy - it really breathes.

How ya' doin bud?

Not to Mike, but Doug spent some time long distance trying this and that.

Yeah, the BCG dual is in the cards, but since I like riding every day and since I can now ride it everyday, my riding buddy is telling me to leave it alone! I kinda doubt I will do that. He said "What do you want? You out ran a Big Dog 117 CI Chopper this Sunday with your stock Delphi!" I said, "Yeah, but that was an 1/8th mile run. He wuda got me at the 1/4 mile marker!" Seriously, both of us prefer to ride rather than tinker, so I might leave the stock TB on it, for a while .......... maybe.

Guess I will be sellin' a new Kuryakyn 57mm TB on another forum/board.....

At least I can use the stock injectors on the BCG. I might throw in some 6.1 gps injectors with the sale of the new Kury to get it gone and use the money to buy the BCG dual. Has anyone tried the RSR injector system? Just kidding.

Seabrook

[Griffiss]

Lot's of guys using RSR injection, at the track and they are winning races, on the street could almost buy a back up bike for what it costs. I have the RSR pipes and I'm not giving them back. Mine exit to the right side nothing more fun than blowing the pipes right in some cage window while they are chatting on the phone. OK Rock now you make me want to get the injectors balanced, I know I got great numbers for a 95 with the Delphi and then a Supertrapp 2 into 1, that was the tech's skill not me. Haven't done the Dyno on the RSR with the DTT yet, now I'll wait for the G. throtlebody, by then the weather will suck and by the end of winter screwing with the DTT, RSR, IAC,and MFI my mind will be SNAFU PDQ. OK

[GRock]

Originally Posted by LAF

So if a guy was to send off a new set of injectors to these folks what kind of cost would be associated with it?

I also listened on your injector/TB lesson when I asked a while back. It is why I went to the BC. More horse power supported with stock injectors, and clean air charges into your cylinders, no air robbing with the fast (ski slope) cams. I think the best move if you are going in for a new TB, but I am a little biased.

Have to say I never thought of injector tunning, or flowing each but if it is not too cost prohibitive I would like to check it out. Since we are talking about only having two yes I see how it could be a issue in tunning.

Oh and while you are here have this low idle thing going on, does not matter punching it or just moving along, come to a stop idle drops, if I can stay stopped long enough it will pick up and then all is well, if not a restart does it.

Also on the bike warm option screen would you not want that at the temp you set IAC at? Default is 95C IAC set at 110C with live view.

And do you have any experience with the auto IAC update?

I been unchecked it and using 30 as nominal IAC in the set up screen.

auto barometric pressure update?

Both of these I wonder how they affect performance of the bike if they are always sampling, seems like something else is gonna suffer.

Still not reliable in the 0-2.5% BLM corrections, correct?
Anything specific on the BC T/B I should use/try/watch out for?

Thanks for the help as always............

Marren Fuel Injection in Oxford or Derby, CT does great things with injectors and you can have them serviced for about $25. Plenty of other companies too with RC engineering on the West Coast helping us out when we are out there. The equipment is very high tech to measure and balance but the procedure and fix is not that big a deal. Seen many engines benefit greatly from just this service alone!!

As for idle problem, open your throttle blade a bit more and REDUCE your IAC to about 25 nominal maybe less. Remever that you are gulping big air under throttle with that TB and then shutting off the gas causes the IAC to rush back so make adjustment between the butterfly and IAC to find a good median. Also add fuel at the 2.5% and 0 lines from about 500 to 2000 RPM just a little at a time and you should be OKafter you find your happy place. It is taking too much time for the IAC to get back to idle mode so use the TB to give it the air instead of the IAC steps. Forget auto IAC and barometrics unless you live in the mountains or are on steady run across the country. Remember that barometrics are read and compensated for at every start up.