Daytona Twin-Tech TCFI tuning

[jasilva]

Originally Posted by ktwillys

Curtis,,,,,,,,hope you had fun last weekend......

weather here is finally starting to stay above the freezing mark...

Hey I am going to put the stock throttle body back on.. I dont think that the dual tb is working with my build..

do you have any maps that would work to start with?

I have 570 s&s gear drive cams, moderate compression (9.8 to 1), K&N A/N High Flow Filter, V&H True Dual headers and python slip-on mufflers. Stock 4.22 injectors....

I hope you have a basic map I can start with..

thanks

SERT

[ktwillys]

Originally Posted by jasilva

SERT

It is sitting in the tool box all ready to go...

It seems to be almost impossible to find a good tuner that knows the SERT around here..

you would think that it would be easy in such a big city but I have spoken to a few and they say "I can do it but I am not real good at it."

And I have found even more that say,,,,,,"sure no problem.."

then I find out that they want between 500 to 1000 to tune the bike....give me a break....

I am hard pressed to give up on the closed system since they are far better.
But if it wont run right then screw it..

I also was waiting a bit to see the new stuff coming out from the guys that made the SERT for HD..
Well as it looks it is coming soon but again it will be another propritory system to one bike... Sure dont think I want that .... same thing I already got.....

[jasilva]

Talk to Doc, he should be able to point you at a good tuner, or you can take a ride out here to the SF bay area and see Bob at RC cycles.




Joe

[ktwillys]

Originally Posted by jasilva

Talk to Doc, he should be able to point you at a good tuner, or you can take a ride out here to the SF bay area and see Bob at RC cycles.




Joe

Joe I wouldnt mind the 1500 miles to get to SF.....

but am still a little afraid of the area....

last year was out that way to see my son (took a nurse with me,,, and she did something that is unforgiveable in my eyes so I left her arse out there....

somehow I dont think she saw the sense of humor in the whole situation................

Any way I am going back to the stock throttle body and going to see if I can get this summer done before making the change back.. it would be nice....

but I am already selling the dual tb ,,,, it is a bit to agressive for my moderate build.....

Doc is on the list to talk to tomorrow....

[cts1950]

I have been watching this forum because I have a dtt II and have been using it for several years. I have recently upgraded my engine from 95 to 103. I have been ironing out the bugs and getting it's ride-ability improved. I was only getting about 35 mpg at first but I have been working on the air fuel maps to lean out the cruse range to 14.5-1 I am now getting 40 mpg in mountain riding better on the highway. One of my biggest problems was my home made true dual conversion similar to the fullsack. I could not seal up the rear pipe joint above the starter and had a minor exhaust leak. It seems that a minor leak is a major problem for a closed loop system. I was always ending up with extreme blm issues. I bought a set of v&h true dual headers and replaced just the rear header and it made quite a difference when I apply the blms I now get almost all 100s I could not get that before. I also had quite a bit of popcorn on decill the new header helped. I have been thinking about the 2 into 1 exhaust makes more power but is not friendly with the dtt system. I came to the conclusion with the large mufflers that I have the s&s ovals I did not have enough back pressure for the mufflers to work properly (over scavenging) and i made a new set of baffles to try to get rid of the sharp rap that I was getting and to increase the back pressure. I started with 2.125 exhaust pipe and cut 7 lengths of 1/2 emt tube. I also cut them all different lengths so their resonant frequency would be different. The long tube in the center of six outer tubes I cut to 16" each other is 2" shorter than the one before 16 14 12 10 etc. these I pressed into the 2.125 pipe. It has a Gatling gun look to it. This seemed to soften the rap and almost eliminated the pop corn. I think this helped with a reversion issue. I also noticed that the motor pulled harder at higher throttle settings. I have not had a chance to get it re-dynoed for a real look. My original numbers before all of the above changes were 105 torque 99 hp SAE. The torque was flat 2500 to 5300. My build is a se (jims) stoker crank, flat top forged pistons, ported heads , black diamond valves, woods bee hive springs, 85 cc chambers 10.1 cr ,compression releases, se 50 mm throttle body, woods 6hg cams, fueling super pump, delkron cam plate, and tp rocker boxes and roller rockers. 1999 base motor and ultra rewired with 2007 harness and instruments and hk radio.

[wkohn]

Originally Posted by cts1950

I have been watching this forum because I have a dtt II and have been using it for several years. I have recently upgraded my engine from 95 to 103. I have been ironing out the bugs and getting it's ride-ability improved. I was only getting about 35 mpg at first but I have been working on the air fuel maps to lean out the cruse range to 14.5-1 I am now getting 40 mpg in mountain riding better on the highway. One of my biggest problems was my home made true dual conversion similar to the fullsack. I could not seal up the rear pipe joint above the starter and had a minor exhaust leak. It seems that a minor leak is a major problem for a closed loop system. I was always ending up with extreme blm issues. I bought a set of v&h true dual headers and replaced just the rear header and it made quite a difference when I apply the blms I now get almost all 100s I could not get that before. I also had quite a bit of popcorn on decill the new header helped. I have been thinking about the 2 into 1 exhaust makes more power but is not friendly with the dtt system. I came to the conclusion with the large mufflers that I have the s&s ovals I did not have enough back pressure for the mufflers to work properly (over scavenging) and i made a new set of baffles to try to get rid of the sharp rap that I was getting and to increase the back pressure. I started with 2.125 exhaust pipe and cut 7 lengths of 1/2 emt tube. I also cut them all different lengths so their resonant frequency would be different. The long tube in the center of six outer tubes I cut to 16" each other is 2" shorter than the one before 16 14 12 10 etc. these I pressed into the 2.125 pipe. It has a Gatling gun look to it. This seemed to soften the rap and almost eliminated the pop corn. I think this helped with a reversion issue. I also noticed that the motor pulled harder at higher throttle settings. I have not had a chance to get it re-dynoed for a real look. My original numbers before all of the above changes were 105 torque 99 hp SAE. The torque was flat 2500 to 5300. My build is a se (jims) stoker crank, flat top forged pistons, ported heads , black diamond valves, woods bee hive springs, 85 cc chambers 10.1 cr ,compression releases, se 50 mm throttle body, woods 6hg cams, fueling super pump, delkron cam plate, and tp rocker boxes and roller rockers. 1999 base motor and ultra rewired with 2007 harness and instruments and hk radio.

Sounds like have gotten your AFR and Advanced Curve to where I want mine to be. I have a lower lift cam (HQ-0034G), 9.9 to 1 compression, 95", Gerolamy TB, B&E True Dual, K&N filter, and about 38mpg now. At one time I was getting about 47mpg on the highway. Wish I could get that again. Curtis has helped me in fixing some of the starting and drive issues. But now I need to get the mileage back up and keep the sparkknock away at the same time.

[cts1950]

I think my advance curve must be at the edge of where it should be. Last weekend I got up into the mountains where it ran fine. I was riding with a large group and going rather slow. I noticed when I got out of the mountains and back on the flat and sea level my motor pinged like crazy for a few miles and then settled down. I am thinking that the 40 miles of down hill riding had caused the computer to lean out the mix to extreme and took a few miles to fatten it back up to stop the pinging. I still have less than 1000 miles on my build and lots of tweaking to do. I wish there was a Twin Tech for dummies guide. I keep trying to equate fuel injection to carburetors. There are a lot of adjustments with names that do not mean much to me. If they equated their adjustments with terms like accelerator pump, main jet , power valve , idle rich lean it would help us old dogs out. I see that some have become frustrated with dtt and are bailing out. I see that you have a Gerolamy TB did you have that when you were getting better mileage? I ask that in that I just bought one of those on ebay and have been thinking of trying it out, it came with 5.5 gm/s injectors which are larger than any I have tried before. On your engine build have you measured your quench squeeze above your pistons, mine is about .040 I was wanting .030 but could not come up with the right head gasket for the job. From what I have been reading on this form that is important to control pinging.

[wkohn]

Originally Posted by cts1950

I wish there was a Twin Tech for dummies guide. I keep trying to equate fuel injection to carburetors. There are a lot of adjustments with names that do not mean much to me. If they equated their adjustments with terms like accelerator pump, main jet , power valve , idle rich lean it would help us old dogs out. I see that some have become frustrated with dtt and are bailing out. I see that you have a Gerolamy TB did you have that when you were getting better mileage? I ask that in that I just bought one of those on ebay and have been thinking of trying it out, it came with 5.5 gm/s injectors which are larger than any I have tried before. On your engine build have you measured your quench squeeze above your pistons, mine is about .040 I was wanting .030 but could not come up with the right head gasket for the job. From what I have been reading on this form that is important to control pinging.

If you ever find that guide I would be interested in a copy.

I have had the Gerolamy on since the rebuild to 95" but I am using the stock injectors. If you use it adjust it to be closed when cold just so the plates don't stick.

My quench is at .040 for the same reason. I have heard of a lot of guys having spark knock with .030 quench.

[cts1950]

This is a copy of the map I am using keep in mind it is a work in progress. I still am having problems at idle in it is a little rough until it warms up the rear cylinder 8 cycles that it seems to skip a beat compaired to the front cylinder.

[Curtis Shipp]

Originally Posted by cts1950

This is a copy of the map I am using keep in mind it is a work in progress. I still am having problems at idle in it is a little rough until it warms up the rear cylinder 8 cycles that it seems to skip a beat compaired to the front cylinder.

Here is your map reworked. I wiped out your front cyl trim so you need to apply and reset your blm's at least 3 times. It was very erratic. I worked on your timing and afr and your alpha-n's. I get 45 mpg running 13.9 afr at 65 mph with 34 degrees timing. See if this helps and let me know.

[cts1950]

Curtis
Thanks for looking at my map. I will give it a try. I am curious why you run a little fatter on the afr? I haven't had time to study the differences between the maps but I printed them both out so I can study both of them. The front cylinder trim was erratic I was not sure if I should flatten it out manually or let the computer trim it in after I had changed the rear exhaust pipe.

[Curtis Shipp]

Originally Posted by cts1950

Curtis
Thanks for looking at my map. I will give it a try. I am curious why you run a little fatter on the afr? I haven't had time to study the differences between the maps but I printed them both out so I can study both of them. The front cylinder trim was erratic I was not sure if I should flatten it out manually or let the computer trim it in after I had changed the rear exhaust pipe.

I run fatter because these are air cooled motors. The front cyl trim will set its on self. Apply blm's about every 100 miles or so for 10 rides.

[sdbryant]

Originally Posted by Curtis Shipp

I run fatter because these are air cooled motors. The front cyl trim will set its on self. Apply blm's about every 100 miles or so for 10 rides.

Can I expect the loud pop I am getting on deceleration to eventually go away after several rides and applications of the BLM's? I am still getting that one loud bang/pop when getting off the throttle when the rpm's reach a certain point on the way down, I'm thinking around 1500-2000. Not sure since I don't yet have a palm pilot to run the live view software. I also haven't detected an exhaust leak at the head. Could a very slight, possibly undetectable leak cause this loud pop? The pipe is a V&H 2-1 and I put in new SE flange gaskets when I installed it. I hate to be chasing a perfect map if it's a leak that is causing this all along. CS, have you had a chance to take a look at that latest map I had posted a week or two ago?

SDB
'07 FLSTF
V&H BR 2-1
SE Heavy Breather
DTT

[Curtis Shipp]

Originally Posted by sdbryant

Can I expect the loud pop I am getting on deceleration to eventually go away after several rides and applications of the BLM's? I am still getting that one loud bang/pop when getting off the throttle when the rpm's reach a certain point on the way down, I'm thinking around 1500-2000. Not sure since I don't yet have a palm pilot to run the live view software. I also haven't detected an exhaust leak at the head. Could a very slight, possibly undetectable leak cause this loud pop? The pipe is a V&H 2-1 and I put in new SE flange gaskets when I installed it. I hate to be chasing a perfect map if it's a leak that is causing this all along. CS, have you had a chance to take a look at that latest map I had posted a week or two ago?

SDB
'07 FLSTF
V&H BR 2-1
SE Heavy Breather
DTT

Go up and down on the alpha-n's at 0% tps from 1750 up to 3500 and see if this helps. Mine has a D&D fat cat 2-1 and I get a light crackle on decel but no loud pop.

[sdbryant]

Originally Posted by Curtis Shipp

Go up and down on the alpha-n's at 0% tps from 1750 up to 3500 and see if this helps. Mine has a D&D fat cat 2-1 and I get a light crackle on decel but no loud pop.

I'll do this, thanks for the advice.

SDB