Daytona Twin-Tech TCFI tuning

[nmandic]

I guess the 'benefit' of DTT unit is that it self-tunes .. so you don't need a dyno or an expert to set up your system (apparently ).

But again I guess if you have Doc as you neighbour why da f$&# yo need DTT? You give it to the man and he tunes your bike to perfection - no more ride / download / call Chris etc. Then you can come back to this forum have us envy you to death for spending your time riding instead of tuning.

If I had that option I would always chose Doc over self-tuning TCFI - but I don't.

[nmandic]

Originally Posted by ktwillys

Ok tried the Asyncronos Fuel Gain and it was little or no help with the off idle hesitation.
There is a definite hesitation (worse when twisting the throttle when setting) but even when on the road if you grab a handful of throttle you can still feel the hesitation.
So I am thinking that I will try the timing table next...

I am not sure why DTT would have set up a map that is maxed out in some areas (Delta TPS Adder)but alas they did...

This was posted before re the same issue - hesitation. Perhaps this will not help but still ...

Look at your 2.5% throttle position row. If you are sure that you are idling correctly at 0% throttle position, you need to be sure that the numbers in the 2.5% row are greater than the numbers in the 0 row in the Alpha-N table. My guess is if you are having trouble with launching from a deadstop, is that you are not rich enough at the 0 mark or you have a least a few numbers in the 2.5 row that are LESS than the 0 row. The BLM does NOT correctly compute this row on larger builds. If you allow the BLM to adjust the fuel in this row you will be DROPPING fuel from idle. And that split second that the module passes thru this range causes the TCFI to scratch its head (so to speak) until it figures out that you want to go like a bat out of hell, raped ape, scalded dog, (pick one or insert your own). It doesn't understand why you have more fuel at idle than when you are whacking the throttle. This is the hesitation you feel.

[ktwillys]

Got to say that I have read every post in this thread and dont remember seeing that one but I am off to check it out...
I hope it works and thanks for the info...

Ok so I checked them all and the 2.5 row is higher than the 0 row.. alpha n increases as the throttle increases and decreases with the increase of the RPM.....

I am though going to try increasing the AF at idle and 2.5% to see if that will help.
I sent Chris the requested map and TCFI logs.. a couple of days ago so hope to get some idea from him sooner than later....

[nmandic]

Originally Posted by ktwillys

Ok so I checked them all and the 2.5 row is higher than the 0 row.. alpha n increases as the throttle increases and decreases with the increase of the RPM

Another one from before then:

Delta based TPS multiplier will help you in this area. Because of the increased flow of the BC TB, you need to accelerate the amount of fuel per your TPS reading. You also probably still do not have enough fuel at idle, especially if you have not adjusted the idle mixture since you installed the new TB. If you have to, idle at 12 or below AFR and get your IAC steps as low as you can in the in the 30 to 40 idle range. Experiment with 28 or so also. You have a lot more air with that TB and you have to compensate.

... here I noted that Delta based TPS multiplier value is already 120 from Delta TPS 12% and UP; and the comment was:

The 0 throttle position is good up until 0 to 12%. And that position is NOT set for max of 120. Also you have accel enleanment decay rate on the parameters screen. Those two and a little timing adjustment will have that Gerolamy TB and the rest of the bike leaving the line without you. Keep in mind when you go to big air TB that you need to have the other components to go with it or you will lose some throttle response.

Please note that this comment may have been made when we had single sensor TCFIs however you may always check setting and set Fule Multiplier to 120 @ 0 Delta TPS.

Don't know if this helps at all - but it's like puzzles of information scattered around; you think you see the picture and then you don't.

I am still struggling with cold start - sometimes it starts sometimes it doesn't. The guys from DTT told me that Due to the limited size of the IAC pintle (intended for a 88 CID engine), on large engines you will have to hold the throttle open (after the fuel pump stops running and initialization is complete) to successfully start the engine in cold weather conditions. Not sure if that sorts out my problem

I see GRock hasn't been around for a while ... did he migrate to another forum or just got bored with all these issues?

[FLSTCI124"]

Originally Posted by jasilva

FLSTC, if you really are going to go with a SERT, take it to Doc, he's in Orlando. He probably trained your indy, if he didn't then your indy isn't even close to knowing what Doc does about SERT tuning.
Joe

I've been PM'ing Doc and if I do go with a SERT I will definitely find my way to Orlando...

Doc said his bread & butter it the SERT, not the DTT.

[The_Snowman]

Originally Posted by FLSTCI124"

That's it... I've had enough of the DTT headaches!

I'm pulling this hunk of crap off and going with a SERT...

Watch e-bay for a TCFI IID for sale cheap! $ USB cable free with purchase.

.................... I recommend the
THUNDER MAX

[nmandic]

Originally Posted by ktwillys

While talking to Chris I was told that with the Gerolamy TB you should never set the Asyncronous Fuel Gain any higher than 40 to 60,,,,,, I had to ask why then is it set at 128 in the map that they provide... guess what... no answer but another subject was injected right away, and nope no going back to the question..... HMMMM

ktwillys,

the value for Asyncronous Fuel Gain in the TCFI_Setup_2001_Gerolamy file is set to 50 (at least in my files). Perhaps I should reduce my value back to 50 (mine is 200 ).

This is the thing about the info that comes with TCFI unit - if you did not ask that question and posted the comment here; I would never know (I still don't know why it shouldn't be higher than 40-60 but at least know something). But to give them some credit - it must be difficult to write down every singe bit of information that someone may need (to know).

NM

[ktwillys]

NM,,
yep your are right it would be difficult but alas if it is your product that is the responsability you take on.. I have found a lot of helpfull information in the help files. It is not very indepth but it does explain a lot more than is in the instruction sheets.
My first download showed the Async at 128 and when I did a new download it showed up at 50.. not sure why but I have found that I do have to mess with a lot more than that. I am adjusting some of the 2D files as well and it seems to be helping a little bit.. Lots of trial and error with this system.
I think that the Async is at 50 on the dual runner TB's is that it controls both injectors and you dont have the issue of our cams drawing the fuel charge back across the intake to the wrong cylinder, thus it doesnt require such a large fuel charge to make up for this problem.

Looking at the TMAX system it says that it is self-tuning..... and if I understand it right, you set your AFR at a desired level and it will automaticly work its tabels to the desired AFR.. without having to download after trip and apply your memorized tables to the program and then uploading to the ECM....

I wonder when DTT will do this..This is something that has been done (true up to a point and within a fairly small range) by the automotive industry since the late 70's....

I have to say that I like this function of a system.. sure would save a lot of start and stop, download and upload steps..

One thing I have tried and seems to help with a pretty bad surge when coming off of an idle blip or hard decel is to remove the IAC's "Automatic Nominal Idle IAC Update Mode" (turn off) in the Basic Module Parameters section. This has made a very big difference in the idle of my engine so far...


I do like the way the bike does run, my only real complaint (and nope no long rides on it yet... ) is the lag off of idle when I grab a handfull of throttle...

I will give it a little bit longer and then decide where to next.. I still have my SERT and its only down fall is no O2 sensors... for better AFR tracking

[wkohn]

Originally Posted by ktwillys

NM,,
yep your are right it would be difficult but alas if it is your product that is the responsability you take on.. I have found a lot of helpfull information in the help files. It is not very indepth but it does explain a lot more than is in the instruction sheets.
My first download showed the Async at 128 and when I did a new download it showed up at 50.. not sure why but I have found that I do have to mess with a lot more than that. I am adjusting some of the 2D files as well and it seems to be helping a little bit.. Lots of trial and error with this system.
I think that the Async is at 50 on the dual runner TB's is that it controls both injectors and you dont have the issue of our cams drawing the fuel charge back across the intake to the wrong cylinder, thus it doesnt require such a large fuel charge to make up for this problem.

Looking at the TMAX system it says that it is self-tuning..... and if I understand it right, you set your AFR at a desired level and it will automaticly work its tabels to the desired AFR.. without having to download after trip and apply your memorized tables to the program and then uploading to the ECM....

I wonder when DTT will do this..This is something that has been done (true up to a point and within a fairly small range) by the automotive industry since the late 70's....

I have to say that I like this function of a system.. sure would save a lot of start and stop, download and upload steps..

One thing I have tried and seems to help with a pretty bad surge when coming off of an idle blip or hard decel is to remove the IAC's "Automatic Nominal Idle IAC Update Mode" (turn off) in the Basic Module Parameters section. This has made a very big difference in the idle of my engine so far...


I do like the way the bike does run, my only real complaint (and nope no long rides on it yet... ) is the lag off of idle when I grab a handfull of throttle...

I will give it a little bit longer and then decide where to next.. I still have my SERT and its only down fall is no O2 sensors... for better AFR tracking

www.head-quarters.com has an item called a ProTuner that adds O2 sensors to a SERT or PCIII.

[ktwillys]

Thanks I am going to look into this critter......

[nmandic]

Originally Posted by ktwillys

One thing I have tried and seems to help with a pretty bad surge when coming off of an idle blip or hard decel is to remove the IAC's "Automatic Nominal Idle IAC Update Mode" (turn off) in the Basic Module Parameters section. This has made a very big difference in the idle of my engine so far...

I think GRock suggested turning off that function as well so I have never had it 'on'. My "only" problem at the moment is that since the last few days it sounds like the engine is reving high. Actually, the revs are normal but the sound of the engine is as it has high IAC. I've checked the IAC and it seems fine. I have attached the last log if anyone has some spare time and see if there is anything 'abnormal' here; I would appreciate some help here.

NM

[ktwillys]

Hi all.

A new question.. reading the DTT help files and checking on the 2D files is the

IAC Based TPS Adder Table... now the file states " This table consists of a throttle position factor corresponding to IAC position. In an Alpha-N fuel control, IAC position must be considered. A high IAC position (high idle air flow) is the same as opening the throttle. In general the values in this table need only be edited if an aftermarket throttle body with significantly greater air flow is used. In this case, the table values should be reduced slightly"

Now according to this the values should be changed for the throttle bodies that have the HI AIRFLOW....
Now if I remember right (per my conversation with Chris) the Gerolamy throttle body is a high flow throttle body.

My question is why then are the values the same for the stock Delphi single throttle bodies....???
And should the table be messed with?
Has anyone tried this?
It seems to me that going from a single 44 mm throttle body to a 50 mm dual throttle body one would have to change these values to represent change in the higher airflow.
I would think that if you dont change this value you would have to compensate for this somewhere else.. maybe the Delta TPS Fuel Multiplier Table... But since this table is maxed out by DTT and you cant make up for it in the Asynchronous Fuel Gain (which according to Chris is maxed out at 60 for the Gerolamy throttle body then where do you make up the difference for the lack of fuel (yep there is a lean spike when the throttle is "Blipped") when the throttle is quickly opened.
Now since I have a hesitation on throttle opening and have a lean spike this tells me that I need more fuel or less air on throttle opening and since less air is not really possible I guess it is more fuel... Right?

[todd comer]

Try your theory out because my bike with the HP 55mm TB has always had a slight hesitation off idle.Not bad when warmed up.It wasn't that long ago that I tryed reducing IAC though that paticular function but had no luck.Really think the Sert is the best tuning device out there!!!

[ktwillys]

Originally Posted by nmandic

I think GRock suggested turning off that function as well so I have never had it 'on'. My "only" problem at the moment is that since the last few days it sounds like the engine is reving high. Actually, the revs are normal but the sound of the engine is as it has high IAC. I've checked the IAC and it seems fine. I have attached the last log if anyone has some spare time and see if there is anything 'abnormal' here; I would appreciate