Daytona Twin-Tech TCFI tuning

[STB]

BTW, if anyone has Nmandic's email address assuming he is not reading this, I would appreciate your sending it to me. I have an advance table he asked for and I lost his email address. I think he is in the UAE, father of four or something like that........ .

Thanks.

STB

[Griffiss]

Well, the ECM is back and installed, I did the free air plugged in the sensors tied up the wires and hit the button, started quick and easy and ran smooth right of the bat. I took it out for a quick spin, longer ride tomorrow . It stumbled a lttle at first then settled right down, happened to get a red light out on the bypass after about a 15 minute warm up and no cars in sight. Came off the light easy then WOT thru 4 gears, very impressed for out of the box, 110 mph when I backed off little under a half mile. I came home and checked the BLM, back looked good front was running lean, it's only gonna get better wahoo! Now it's time to do some ignition tuning, I have to go back and read all the threads again. I am set at stock 5 and 5 now.

[sstan]

I'm looking for some ideas on a problem with starting. About a week ago I got my ECU back and installed a gerolamy dual runner TB at the same time. My IAC steps are about 32 when doing live view (rechecked many times). Today I saw it drop to 25 in the log file though. It recovered when the bike was stopped but not shut off. TPS is at 40.

Anyway starting is getting to be a real pain, more cold starts than when warmed up. If I crack the throttle a little while cranking it fires which leads me to the IAC start adder tables. Before converting to the IID my time based table was what DTT calls the aggressive one. The ET start adder numbers before conversion were lower than now for cold temps. My converted start tables are the same as whats in the stock maps from DTT.

I've been tuning so far with the TCFI_Setup95_Gerolamy.dat and with a few applied BLM's the bike has never run better. It's just getting it started that's problematic. Before the upgrade it would start quick and idled perfectly.

I tried the start optimizing tests as outlined in the IID idle tuning tech note and the IAC falls normally and the idle is flat at 1000 rps. Still it acts like not enough air while cranking. I'm tempted to try increasing the time based start adder numbers to more like what I had before the conversion. Any thoughts?

[LAF]

Well disconnected all cables and tried to set it and after a lot of attempts it set. However I could not replicate it for another 3 hours, it finally set and stayed.

I used a new cable set the HD Diamond back or some shiz, nice cables but 149 less 10%. The are 1.5 inches longer. On a RG the length is 39.5 and these are 41 inches While I think I needed new and longer cables although not the issue, it hurt buying chrome or whatever these are. I am not big into it but now I have to buy the clutch cable to match as it will drive me nuts. I had to get the Dremel and the jewelers rouge and I polished the line where the butterflies close at, I think with thermal expansion they were dragging but maybe not, figured it would not hurt and as it was buffing wheels and rouge just a polish after that is when I got it set. On the cables I wanted another of those brackets with the blind pop rivet but two dealers had the rivet but not the hanger. I just moved it back to where it helped start the curve that these cables must hit, then I put my small crows foot through it and bent it toward the front and down to even get it pointed further that way. It still is tight and a pretty sharp bend but they are off my jugs now and seated nicely in the TB stops. Any way my last 6 hours and what I found so far. Did have a bad hot restart where it raced but pulled over, shut it down let it sit a minuet or three and it fired up in a set state. From the log I am lean for sure. Also noticed the TPS is off a tinch now, but want to do a cold to hot live view tomorrow and see if it runs and sets to 35 IAC on its own.

Having a "learning experience" for sure.


Above I am bring on line from SSTAN and I on some PM's. I am confident this is now a tuning/software edit

I am EXACTLY WHERE YOU ARE after all that

I have to say I abused my cables in the past on various projects so the new cables and repositioning was no big deal.

Now I am dead on TPS and IAC from cold start to 100 C and BOTH are DEAD NUTS ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am experiencing that I get a nice start, it fires, the compression releases snap in and life is grand . BUT I am getting where it will chug and start then start to slowly race to 1300 RPM instead of bouncing 969-1034 RPM on a "good"start. If I shut it down and restart I will get a good start. I have put "ones" in the BLM Tables up to 1250 RPM at 0% TPS. That did not help the starting issue.

Tonight I have richened the AFR Table in the O and 2% TPS to 12.8 and I have added 10% to my ENTIRE Alpha-N Table, but have not ridden it on this.

Seams to be a 2-D IAC Table but I am not sure where to start. Maybe increase the ET Based IAC Start Adder Table?

Again same thing if I slightly open the Throttle it goes fine.

Also I USED the Aggressive Start Adder Table also with the stock TB.

And I It is really starting to be ANNOYING

On you final question I was wondering that also. Think I will move it 15-20 points up, and see if that helps.

Originally Posted by sstan

I'm looking for some ideas on a problem with starting. About a week ago I got my ECU back and installed a gerolamy dual runner RB at the same time. My IAC steps are about 32 when doing live view (rechecked many times). Today I saw it drop to 25 in the log file though. It recovered when the bike was stopped but not shut off. TPS is at 40.

Anyway starting is getting to be a real pain, more cold starts than when warmed up. If I crack the throttle a little while cranking it fires which leads me to the IAC start adder tables. Before converting to the IID my time based table was what DTT calls the aggressive one. The ET start adder numbers before conversion were lower than now for cold temps. My converted start tables are the same as whats in the stock maps from DTT.

I've been tuning so far with the TCFI_Setup95_Gerolamy.dat and with a few applied BLM's the bike has never run better. It's just getting it started that's problematic. Before the upgrade it would start quick and idled perfectly.

I tried the start optimizing tests as outlined in the IID idle tuning tech note and the IAC falls normally and the idle is flat at 1000 rps. Still it acts like not enough air while cranking. I'm tempted to try increasing the time based start adder numbers to more like what I had before the conversion. Any thoughts?

[LAF]

As a follow up on the ET IAC Start Adder Table it only goes to 40 period at least in mine, most are at 30 and a couple at 20 so I added 5 to all. Odd that this is a limit now or at least in our file. If I remember the Original Aggressive was like up in the 60's I thought.

Also is the Nominal IAC on the set up screen supposed to be at 30 or 35?

Once again, more questions then answers........................

[sstan]

It was the time based start adder table that was 67 starting before not the ET table. I tried and the "aggresive" numbers can be added in the IID time based table.

Good question about what is nominal IAC. I see 30 in one doc and 35 in another.

I think it's time to call DTT on Monday unless someone in the know chimes in.

Later

[LAF]

Good catch and my bad.

I went +15 across the board.

[sstan]

As long as you have 0 at 268 seconds it may help. Let us know how it works.

[LAF]

Well after doing cold to hot adjustments again, red locktite on the set screw it is running great. I have to say I am tempted to JB Weld the TPS and set screw

It really is just awesome where it is at now, low speed throttle response is instantaneous, it tolerates lower RPMs now without lugging. Hope it holds and the BLM settles in nicely.

I am attaching my running file and resultant log file. Still need to fine tune but it is safe to run now, I think

This second zip on this Edit is the Log of a good run. Looking good and I am very impressed so far. Look in the log at the 106 MPH AFR on both cylinders. I did two things I had never done at the same time today, spun the rear tire, and raised the front end, it was just a little spin and just enough off the ground for the bars to get very loose, but not expected, never happened before and scared me, thank god I had the presence of mind that once I realized it was light in the front I made sure the bars were strait when it got heavy again.

I can only guess that with the size valves I had installed by Aaron Wilson that I was flowing more then I could receive in air. Or the cylinder robbing with the overlap of the cam and the duel pipes has gotten REALLY squared away with this TB.

Bad news is still had some bad starts and had to restart, it is better so I think the Adder Table is the lick, and have added more to see if it helps on my most recent upload.

[Griffiss]

I have the starting problem as well, I will check all the things mentioned tonight but last check it all looked good. I have a new odd problem, when I turn on the turn signal the security key lights up and stays lite, the bike continues to run but did shut down for no apparent reason when riding yesterday, started right back up, but it was like I hit the off switch.. I do have a security system but haven't used it since I went DTT last winter, don't even know where the key fob is. Thinking I may just unhook the security system but I haven't figured out how.

[niget2002]

I was having starting problems as well, until last night. While I was reading through the post, someone mentioned the aggressive IAC start adder.

Just for giggles, I gave it a try. This morning, the bike fired up first crank. I'll give it another day or two until I pass judgement on if that was the fix or not.

While watching the AFR on starts, I've also had to add fuel to the ET based fuel adder.

[kuee]

I had a similar problem with the turn signals and promptly called DTT to complain since it happend right after I did flash of the ECU. To make a long story short it turned out to be a shorted turn signal wire which was my fault. I was messing with them at the same time. Go check the codes to see what is getting set. Do you have a bulb that is burned out?

Originally Posted by Griffiss

I have the starting problem as well, I will check all the things mentioned tonight but last check it all looked good. I have a new odd problem, when I turn on the turn signal the security key lights up and stays lite, the bike continues to run but did shut down for no apparent reason when riding yesterday, started right back up, but it was like I hit the off switch.. I do have a security system but haven't used it since I went DTT last winter, don't even know where the key fob is. Thinking I may just unhook the security system but I haven't figured out how.

[sstan]

Chris at DTT tells me (in an email) the time based start adder table has no effect on start ups, only the ET start adder. Last night, just for grins I added to the front of the time based table similar to the map LAF just posted. I also added a little to the 0% idle cells in the alpha-n table and locked them down with 1's in the rear BLM table and this morning it fired right up.

I'm still going to call Chris to pick his brain further and will let you know. But for now it's starting like it did before IID.

[LAF]

Well at this point this SHITZ is VOODOO!!!!!!!

I had it **** on and after a really good heating up it will NOT restart to a 1000 RPM idle! I had it hot today and re adjusted every thing to spec. I mean make sure it has been ridden first to warm all components, put a fan on it to cool it for a bit, start it in live view, it runs a steady 969-1034 on RPM, TPS is Dead on the 4, IAC sets at 35 at 100 C. Ride it for 20 minuets and life is cool, apply BLM and take a nap. Wake up and it starts and runs great big grin.

Run it to work about 20 miles highway but rush hour and some start and stop, oil temp about 200, do some things 20 minuets or so, starts but a little funny go two blocks to a friends, stop for 20, and it takes two tries to get it set and I have been seeing the RED KEY also. Ride 20 minuets and stop at my brothers, cig, glass of water, and 5 starts and still cant get it to idle. Take off on 1200 RPM, of course under load it acts fine, but pull that clutch and she is steady 1200. Go a couple blocks pull over stop let it sit a few, fire it and 1200. Ride it another few blocks to see if it will settle out, nope pull off wait 10 minuets, got a start with faint RED KEY light, and a 1000 idle but then dropping to 800 or so. I have one stop and then highway all but to my door so I do it home just taking it easy. Pull the files on the repeated attempts at restart and on the high rpm runs the IAC is at 70 or so, on the low idle restart and the run home IAC 20 or so.

Anyone have a chicken and some rum for a sacrifice? I bet 100 bucks it will start 2 hours from now or in the morning but I am going insane and it is making my bike unreliable and to this point I have never not trusted it.

[bbrowncods]

LAF, I'm sure you checked this but I heard that the Gero TB needs a little more spring to hold it closed, especially when hot. I don't know, but if it is open a Kunt hair then it would act up.