Daytona Twin-Tech TCFI tuning

[strokester]

I finally got time to play, and it runs go with better throttle responce, my front cylinder is richer so i will match it to the rear as you guys have had to do, thanks!!!!

[niget2002]

Here's my problem.

When I hit the starter on the bike (now that it's colder)... The IAC starts at a high value. The bike will run for a second, then die. Hit the starter the second time... same. Third time, and the bike will remain running and warm up correctly. Watching the Live View, I can see where the IAC value starts high, and on each subsequent start it is a lower value, and the third push of the button, the value drops enough that the bike continues running.

On a whim, I lowered the ET based IAC Position Table for that temperature rang just a little. This morning (same outside and ET as yesterday) I hooked up the computer, and started the bike. The initial value was lower than it was yesterday (understandably), and the bike only required two pushes of the starter.

Should I lower the value just a little more until the value converges quick enough to continue running? Or should I be adding fuel somewhere?

Once the IAC drops the AFR shows good values all the way up to warm-up (actually, it's still a tad rich at idle at 1000 RPM)

Here's a log from this morning. You can see where the first push of the button, the bike leaned out and died, then the second push it continued to run.

I threw in my map too.

[nmandic]

Did some fine tuning recently and found out that my BLM is between 80-85 when when warmed up and idling. According to the manual it should be between 90-95. By reducing the Alpha-N values in idle cells for 1.0 I got this value between 90-95 what I wanted. IAC nice on 32-35.

However, I noticed that I started having problem with cold start? Could this be related? Could the initial mixture be now too lean?

When I start if I give it a bit of a twist to the throttle it seems like ithelps? But with fuel injection that should not matter i.e., the throttle position isit?

[bbrowncods]

Originally Posted by nmandic

Did some fine tuning recently and found out that my BLM is between 80-85 when when warmed up and idling. According to the manual it should be between 90-95. By reducing the Alpha-N values in idle cells for 1.0 I got this value between 90-95 what I wanted. IAC nice on 32-35.

However, I noticed that I started having problem with cold start? Could this be related? Could the initial mixture be now too lean?

When I start if I give it a bit of a twist to the throttle it seems like ithelps? But with fuel injection that should not matter i.e., the throttle position isit?

Your description is too vague. Put the old values back in and see what it does. If it is still messing up send me your latest log and map.

[nmandic]

Originally Posted by bbrowncods

... Put the old values back in and see what it does...

I think that's what I will do however just now I am changing the stock starter to a better performance starter. I'll be picking u the bike today so I won't know whether better starting is because of the starter or Alpha-N table?

[LAF]

Well seem to have an issue with my RPMs dropping after a sustained run. It seems odd as the oil light does not come on and although the tac is at like 400 or 600 rpms the bike is not stalling! I used to have an IAC issue of this nature where after running hard it would show low RPMs BUT the oil light would light and it would stall if not feathered, BUT if I could sit long enough it would recover fairly quickly. This is not that way like I said no oil light and it does not appear to be going to die, and I am not sure what it is really dropping to as I cant catch it on a log.

I also still smell gas but see no visible sings of leaking.

Since I set my injector size to 4.8 for the Marren Injectors I think I am going to set it back to 4.22 or 4.44 or something to see if this is affecting anything.

I am going to check my cables and such but think it may be a TCFI thing.

Any help?

[nmandic]

LAF, I am still tuning this one. My engine doesn't stall any more however after very heavy run the RPMs go down significantly. I have never had oil light on so I don't know whether our problems are of smilar nature.

I have attached my ET and Time Based IAC Start Adder Tables for your comparison (if that helps at all). As indicated in TCFI Idle Tuning Note: "If your table values are too high, excessive time based compensation may educe the IAC value below the nominal idle IAC value. In this case, when the engine returns to idle for the first time, RPM will be below the idle RPM set point. The engine may even stall before the idle RPM control loop has a chance to recover."

You may try to reduce all cells of your Time Based IAC Start Adder Tables for say -10% and see what happens. If the engine starts reving too high when you stop (after a ride) you may wish to go back for +5% and see whether that helps (at least that's what hapened to me. And one you finish then go back to IAC and check that it is still around 35 mark. I don;t know whether this helps and/or works but this is a kind of process I am going through.

[strokester]

Ok once in a while when i hit the start button the bike goes POW, it doesnt allways do it, just started it in v10 and i changed to peformance baffles but im not shure if the tcfi change or baffles caused it, (dumb of me to change 2 things a once) anyway mabe someone had this problem and knows the cure.
thanks

[LAF]

Thank you and I will have a look and see. It is very odd as it does act as an IAC issue but as I said no oil light and it is not physically dropping as much as the Tach shows. Never had this before, but other than that it is fine in the 98" flavor I am running.

Originally Posted by nmandic

LAF, I am still tuning this one. My engine doesn't stall any more however after very heavy run the RPMs go down significantly. I have never had oil light on so I don't know whether our problems are of smilar nature.

I have attached my ET and Time Based IAC Start Adder Tables for your comparison (if that helps at all). As indicated in TCFI Idle Tuning Note: "If your table values are too high, excessive time based compensation may educe the IAC value below the nominal idle IAC value. In this case, when the engine returns to idle for the first time, RPM will be below the idle RPM set point. The engine may even stall before the idle RPM control loop has a chance to recover."

You may try to reduce all cells of your Time Based IAC Start Adder Tables for say -10% and see what happens. If the engine starts reving too high when you stop (after a ride) you may wish to go back for +5% and see whether that helps (at least that's what hapened to me. And one you finish then go back to IAC and check that it is still around 35 mark. I don;t know whether this helps and/or works but this is a kind of process I am going through.

[niget2002]

Thanks for the help you've been giving me bbrowncode.

I'm still editing the 5% row a little at a time to fix my problem. IAC values and warmed-up AFR is spot on, it's just a few of the values at the very start that are causing it to lean out and die.

The bad part, is I can only do one correction or so per day, because of the temps I'm trying to edit at (0 degrees C... cold, very cold).

This morning it was a brisk 23 F degrees outside when I tried to start the bike, and I got a NEW error when it died "P505 IAC High".

I'm starting to think my biggest problem is the fact that I don't have a garage for the bike, so the engine temp is the same as the outside temp when I first try to start it each morning.

The fact that DTT is based out of Florida, I don't think they ever have this problem :-/

It is getting better though!.. Just slowly.

The first morning I get it to start and continue running, I'll be sure and grab the log and post both the log and the map I end up with... just to make sure I didn't overdo anything.

Again, thanks for all the help everyone's been giving me.

[bbrowncods]

Good to hear it! Once you get a good start and idle you will be set. Resist the temptation to continue to mess with the idle after you have it reliable.

BB

[LAF]

Well needed to check timing on these cams as there is not a lot of info on them.

A friend sent me a Sert file and I could not open it. Duhh, no Sert Software

Another friend converted it to a xls file.

Well the SERT breaks out a timing table from 20-100 kPa.
A TCFI uses 16-30 in HG

So found a conversion and it came out the tables I can use from the SERT are 50-100.

They covert to 14.7, 17.7, 20.6, 23.5, 26, 30 and I took the liberty to put them in my 16, 18, 20, 24, 26, 30 and smoothed between 20-24 and 26-30.

What do you guys think? Is it a viable way to convert Timing/MAP between the two?

Lot of guys running Serts so nice way to check what that crew is running on the timing tables for our cams.

IN my opinion the only thing lacking on the TCFI is the ability to see Dyno Tuned timing slopes on a bunch of cams. Most TCFI people I know just run it pretty close to stock table or mess around a bit. I just don't see alot of dyno tuned TCFI maps.

Am I looking at this right?

[Griffiss]

Went by the local dealership today, talked to the Service manager, he is a good friend and is always asking about the DTT and how things are going, I am having some timing isues as well as some below 3000 tuning issue's he said they are slow and if I can get a weekday off he'll let me bring in my laptop and run it on the Dyno for free, I hope to get some tiome off soon so I can take advantage of his offer. I have a pretty beefy cam SS 585 G, I will share anything I find out when I get to the Dyno. I will say I have finally gotten to the point I am comfortable taking the bike out and not being affraid I will get towed home.

[timberz]

Getting ready to install the upgrade for the TCFI. The wires that run between the WEGO and the O2 sensors are way too long. Has anyone trimmed these to a shorter length? I'm curious if this effects the calibration of the unit or if it is taboo for some other reason. Did a quick search on this string and didn't get any hits. Kind of wondering what is being done with all the extra wire.

[californiarob]

Timberz, I emailed Daytona a bit ago and they said it is ok to trim the wires. I was able to get new pin connectors from the stealer and just cut and installed the new pins.