Daytona Twin-Tech TCFI tuning

[STB]

Originally Posted by STB

I guess the only way to be sure is to reinstall the Kuryakyn 57mm TB after I get it back from Kuryakyn and see if it goes haywire. If it does, that will be a "for sure" test.

The stock TB is working just fine and is just a pleasure to have on the bike even though I cannot break 114 hp with the stock TB which is not a problem since I have not had to buy a rear tire for 7 months, so far. So why re-install the 57mm Kuryakyn [fruge typo!]? It is the only way to be sure that it is not capable of being tuned on my bike. Before I put on the stock TB, I installed the Kury and it was not stable: the IAC and TPS were possessed by who knows what demon. I ran out of incense trying to stablilize the tune with the Kury. So, reinstalling the new Kury (when I get it from Kury after sending my "blowup" 57mm Kury back to Kury), should clear things up.

If the new Kury works as well as the stock TB, then the original Kury must have had a broken butterfly shaft all along which screwed up the IAC and TPS no matter what I tried to do. We shall see.

I ordered the 1.8" intake port Kury 57mm since I am putting new heads on the engine this winter. And, I am updating the exhaust system and the cam. I guess I will know in a couple of months whether the Kury will work on my engine combo. And, as always, I will post the good or the bad.

STB

Corrected typo above.

STB

[Griffiss]

I looked at the Kury before I bought the Gerolomy, and everything I read except kury said it was to big for any thing less than a 120+ engine. I like the Gerolomy with the 4.83 injectors, after opening the the butterfly slightly it runs and starts like a dream, and the more I ride the better it gets. I haven't gotten in it really hard yet as it's scares me, it is running very well. It is very smooth at low rpm's and has plenty up top

[STB]

Originally Posted by Griffiss

I looked at the Kury before I bought the Gerolomy, and everything I read except kury said it was to big for any thing less than a 120+ engine. I like the Gerolomy with the 4.83 injectors, after opening the the butterfly slightly it runs and starts like a dream, and the more I ride the better it gets. I haven't gotten in it really hard yet as it's scares me, it is running very well. It is very smooth at low rpm's and has plenty up top

Nothing like a bike which starts when it ought to. My engine has the stock TB on it now and it runs and tunes like a champ. No variation for several months. But HP is limited to about 112 or so.

Mike Roland, I heard, posted some tests using the 57mm on "smaller" CI engines and reportedly found no detriment. I don't know how small he went, though. I heard he posted it on HTT forum, but I have not seen it. I agree that bigger is not better if you don't need bigger. I was pushing more than 120 hp with 6.1 gps @ 58 psi injectors until I "taco-ed" the 57mm butterfly. I am leaning towards the BCG dual plenum, but I see a few 124 ci engines running single plenum TBs (Zippers TB in most cases and a few Kury) without the problems I had. If I had my druthers, it would be a stock TB at about 54mm, but it does not exist to my information especially at 1.8" manifold port. So, when the new Kury 57mm comes in, it is either sell it and buy the BCG or try it again and see if the first one I had was sold to me with a broken butterfly/throttle shaft. If I had no curiosity, I might not have any problems at all ....................... and I could hang curtains for fun.

STB

[STB]

Originally Posted by Griffiss

I looked at the Kury before I bought the Gerolomy, and everything I read except kury said it was to big for any thing less than a 120+ engine. I like the Gerolomy with the 4.83 injectors, after opening the the butterfly slightly it runs and starts like a dream, and the more I ride the better it gets. I haven't gotten in it really hard yet as it's scares me, it is running very well. It is very smooth at low rpm's and has plenty up top

Nothing like a bike which starts when it ought to. My engine has the stock TB on it now and it runs and tunes like a champ. No variation for several months. But HP is limited to about 112 or so.

Mike Roland, I heard, posted some tests using the 57mm on "smaller" CI engines and reportedly found no detriment. I don't know how small he went, though. I heard he posted it on HTT forum, but I have not seen it. I agree that bigger is not better if you don't need bigger. I was pushing more than 120 hp with 6.1 gps @ 58 psi injectors until I "taco-ed" the 57mm butterfly. I am leaning towards the BCG dual plenum, but I see a few 124 ci engines running single plenum TBs (Zippers TB in most cases and a few Kury) without the problems I had. If I had my druthers, it would be a stock TB at about 54mm, but it does not exist to my information especially at 1.8" manifold port. So, when the new Kury 57mm comes in, it is either sell it and buy the BCG or try it again and see if the first one I had was sold to me with a broken butterfly/throttle shaft. If I had no curiosity, I might not have any problems at all ....................... and I could hang curtains for fun.

STB

[STB]

Originally Posted by Griffiss

I looked at the Kury before I bought the Gerolomy, and everything I read except kury said it was to big for any thing less than a 120+ engine. I like the Gerolomy with the 4.83 injectors, after opening the the butterfly slightly it runs and starts like a dream, and the more I ride the better it gets. I haven't gotten in it really hard yet as it's scares me, it is running very well. It is very smooth at low rpm's and has plenty up top

Nothing like a bike which starts when it ought to. My engine has the stock TB on it now and it runs and tunes like a champ. No variation for several months. But HP is limited to about 112 or so.

Mike Roland, I heard, posted some tests using the 57mm on "smaller" CI engines and reportedly found no detriment. I don't know how small he went, though. I heard he posted it on HTT forum, but I have not seen it. I agree that bigger is not better if you don't need bigger. I was pushing more than 120 hp with 6.1 gps @ 58 psi injectors until I "taco-ed" the 57mm butterfly. I am leaning towards the BCG dual plenum, but I see a few 124 ci engines running single plenum TBs (Zippers TB in most cases and a few Kury) without the problems I had. If I had my druthers, it would be a stock TB at about 54mm, but it does not exist to my information especially at 1.8" manifold port. So, when the new Kury 57mm comes in, it is either sell it and buy the BCG or try it again and see if the first one I had was sold to me with a broken butterfly/throttle shaft. If I had no curiosity, I might not have any problems at all ....................... and I could hang curtains for fun.

STB

[HD-Monster-Torq]

Without this box selected, the IAC goes down to 35. (Verified this in the log file).

With this box selected the IAC goes down to 20 in the log file. Also the number in the Nominal Idle IAC Steps will be change down by the system.

Bike seems to start better with the box not selected.
We are at sea level.

What does this option do in detail?

[strokester]

any one got a file to help a newbie to compare and see what i need to do?
2003 SE roadking. added compression with .035 gaskets and rinehart exaust.
got my o2 bungs installed and tcfi on the way.

thank you

[sstan]

HD - I saw the same thing on mine and asked Chris at DTT about it. All he would tell me is that it was "normal". After seeing Grock's advice to uncheck this option, I did and it sure runs better now. Especially with the Gerolomy throttle body

[bbrowncods]

Originally Posted by HD-Monster-Torq

Without this box selected, the IAC goes down to 35. (Verified this in the log file).

With this box selected the IAC goes down to 20 in the log file. Also the number in the Nominal Idle IAC Steps will be change down by the system.

Bike seems to start better with the box not selected.
We are at sea level.

What does this option do in detail?

Box NOT checked. The Nominal value stays at what you put in the basic table. It will stay at that value and does not change, even if the engine needs more or less. The software will just correct the IAC in order to keep the engine idleing at the required RPM.

Box checked. While at idle and the VSS at 0, and hot (so there are no "additions"), the IAC will be moving in order to keep the engine at the set idle RPM (same as NOT checked above). If there is a correction to what is in the basic table, in order to keep the idle RPM at the set speed, then the software will input the new value.

This theoretically will zero out any correction factors as the nominal IAC value "learns" where it needs to be for idle.

Here is the problem. All the IAC correction factor tables are based on the nominal value of 35. So if it learns that it needs to be at, lets say 20, then all your IAC correction tables will be not enough by 15. Conversely, the opposite is also true. Therefore cold start idle may initially be rough until the correction loop kicks in to get the idle speed where it needs to be.

In my opinion the DTT idle is way to complicated. Just set the idle speed for what ever the engine temp is and let the IAC do its thing. No need for all these tables for time and cold start, etc.

[Griffiss]

Originally Posted by STB

Nothing like a bike which starts when it ought to. My engine has the stock TB on it now and it runs and tunes like a champ. No variation for several months. But HP is limited to about 112 or so.

Mike Roland, I heard, posted some tests using the 57mm on "smaller" CI engines and reportedly found no detriment. I don't know how small he went, though. I heard he posted it on HTT forum, but I have not seen it. I agree that bigger is not better if you don't need bigger. I was pushing more than 120 hp with 6.1 gps @ 58 psi injectors until I "taco-ed" the 57mm butterfly. I am leaning towards the BCG dual plenum, but I see a few 124 ci engines running single plenum TBs (Zippers TB in most cases and a few Kury) without the problems I had. If I had my druthers, it would be a stock TB at about 54mm, but it does not exist to my information especially at 1.8" manifold port. So, when the new Kury 57mm comes in, it is either sell it and buy the BCG or try it again and see if the first one I had was sold to me with a broken butterfly/throttle shaft. If I had no curiosity, I might not have any problems at all ....................... and I could hang curtains for fun.

STB

I had a couple of options after my stock Delphi throttle shaft broke, new delphi or something better and more expensive, I decided on the Gerolomy and then Grock steered me towrd the injector check and I bumped it up to the 4.89's. I installed the DTT late last summer and fought with it for months because the throttle rod was cracked, I have now figured out, when it finally broke I understood why I had so much trouble. My goal now is to be able to get on the bike hit the button and ride 500 miles, something I haven't been able to do for a while. It seems to be back to dependable, now I start trying to get some more HP. I will tweak away as the weather gets colder and take in in to the Dyno maybe in December to see what the numbers are. I would expect over 110 easy and maybe even 120 with some work, all the parts are in place. Now for the hard part fast and reliable.

[Hollywood63]

Talk about weird I was putting the finishing touches (so I thought) on a 98" with DTT II. Was having a hell of a time getting the thing to start and idle with the O2's in the pipes. Then I shut off the closed loop removed the O2's and decided to work on the idle and starting. I used part of a map from here and other info I read (thanks) and no matter what I did the bastard was getting progressively worse. I tried this I tried that and nothing then it started to miss bad. No heat from the front cylinder so back to basics we have spark and air, so the only missing ingredient was go juice. So what are the chances of a injector taking a dump at 30-35K? It shows a PW so I have to assume (I know ) that electrically the wiring is good also no fault codes so again I'm assuming that the injector failed mechanically.
I like the theroy behind the DTT but so far this one has been a real pain in the
Hollywood

[HD-Monster-Torq]

Working too late one time, I by accident switched front and rear injector wire.
Blue connected to white and white connected to blue (how dumm can you be....). At start up the engine run ok, but it progressively ran worse.
The front sensor was leaning out the rear, making the rear sensor reading lean afr and richen the mixture. Due to the swap of cables not the rear but the front cylinder. The front sensor therefor reads even richer, go leaner etc etc

Than I saw my mistake. Fixed it and problem solved.


You say you already disabled closed loop. But I just wanted to inform you about my mistake. You never know..

[bbrowncods]

Double check your wiring. Also start with the DTT map for the 95". It should run very good with that. If not, then swap the injector connectors and see if the symptom goes to the back cylinder.

[Hollywood63]

Sorry I forgot to mention this thing has about 4500 miles on it since the build. And it ran like a raped ape until I took the O's off. I'm going to try the stock ecm and see if that does anything.

[LAF]

So am gathering parts like a mother hen and get the wild hair to go to Marren and by two new balanced injectors.

Well my stock is 4.22 gm/sec. I decided since I had a duel 50 MM TB, I would move up to a Stage 1 injector. This flows at 4.89 gm/sec.

I did not want to go outrageous on size as I feel I probably can support my soon to be 98" with 585/615 sticks on the stock injectors, but hey why not go a little bigger? Now I know I don't need 6 gm/sec injectors and never will, but what have I done by going up this bit?

I know in the TCFI setup with 4.8 gm/sec in the injector size, PW in msec is 10.65. And with the 4.22gm/sec in the injector size, PW in msec is 12.34.

It seems I have lowered my PW time to achieve the same amount of fuel, but what does that really mean in real world riding? I would think less time on PW would allow faster fuel delivery for changing engine requirements?

FWIW the guys at Marren are pretty cool to talk to. The one thing about their flowing of injectors is they make the injectors "work" to sustain and verify the flow rate. By that I mean most injectors are rated at their flow by being held wide open and the flow is measured. Marren uses the technique of making the injectors pulse with the injectors electromagnetic as they would in driving conditions, in other words opening and closing to achieve their flow. Big difference there.