Vance & Hines Fuelpak Talk.

[alanmcgregor]

Originally Posted by Shriner Jim

Jeffytune:
I am currently in talks with Stephen Mullen of Nightrider concerning O2 IEDs and XIEDs. These devices are simple plug-in devices (voltage dividers) that plug in between the OEM O2 Sensors and the OEM harnesses. The result is a change from 14.7:1 AFR to 14.2:1 AFR. Reports are good (on *******) with these and should be great with the true duals and Rush mufflers. Stephen is even willing to buy the LC-1s back (not at the original purchase price). I'll let you know the outcome.
I am trying to get my ride "just right" prior to a ride to the Carolina Outer Banks. Looking forward to this before the ferenheit gets to high.
Keem 'em straight up there.
Shriner Jim

Firstly, I'm running the FP with the Nightrider IED's installed. Sweet as a nut. Both V&H and NR confirmed that there shouldn't be a problem and there hasn't been. Complementary as far as I can see.

Seperate question. I don't like that dead feeling on decel when the throttle is closed. On the V&H site they suggest increasing mode 23. Presumably this puts a little more fuel in on decel. Has anyone tried this and how far did you increase, mode 23, and did it work?

07 Bob HSSSs, V13 FP, SE AC, IEDs

Cheers

Alan

[alanmcgregor]

Originally Posted by alanmcgregor

Firstly, I'm running the FP with the Nightrider IED's installed. Sweet as a nut. Both V&H and NR confirmed that there shouldn't be a problem and there hasn't been. Complementary as far as I can see.

Seperate question. I don't like that dead feeling on decel when the throttle is closed. On the V&H site they suggest increasing mode 23. Presumably this puts a little more fuel in on decel. Has anyone tried this and how far did you increase, mode 23, and did it work?

07 Bob HSSSs, V13 FP, SE AC, IEDs

Cheers

Alan

That should have been V12 FP - sorry

[Shriner Jim]

Originally Posted by alanmcgregor

Firstly, I'm running the FP with the Nightrider IED's installed. Sweet as a nut. Both V&H and NR confirmed that there shouldn't be a problem and there hasn't been. Complementary as far as I can see.

Seperate question. I don't like that dead feeling on decel when the throttle is closed. On the V&H site they suggest increasing mode 23. Presumably this puts a little more fuel in on decel. Has anyone tried this and how far did you increase, mode 23, and did it work?

07 Bob HSSSs, V13 FP, SE AC, IEDs

Cheers

Alan

Alan
I'm not sure what you mean by a "dead" feeling on decel. I don't feel anything strange. I really like the way my bike performed after removing the LC-1s and installing the OEM O2 sensors, V&H true duals, 2" baffles in the Rush mufflers and the K&N a/c. Do you suppose that the IEDs would be the cause of the "dead" feeling? That seems to be the only difference except the year model. We have the same 96" and 6 speed.
Your thoughts?
Jim

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by alanmcgregor

Seperate question. I don't like that dead feeling on decel when the throttle is closed. On the V&H site they suggest increasing mode 23. Presumably this puts a little more fuel in on decel. Has anyone tried this and how far did you increase, mode 23, and did it work?

07 Bob HSSSs, V13 FP, SE AC, IEDs

Cheers

Alan

Hi Alan.

That is not quite how mode 23 works.

[alanmcgregor]

Originally Posted by Shriner Jim

Alan
I'm not sure what you mean by a "dead" feeling on decel. I don't feel anything strange. I really like the way my bike performed after removing the LC-1s and installing the OEM O2 sensors, V&H true duals, 2" baffles in the Rush mufflers and the K&N a/c. Do you suppose that the IEDs would be the cause of the "dead" feeling? That seems to be the only difference except the year model. We have the same 96" and 6 speed.
Your thoughts?
Jim

I originally had the IEDs installed with HS Slips (quiet baffles) and stock AC. No 'dead feeling' on decel. Fitted SE AC and a fuelpack and now although the overall performance is good, there is a distict flat / dead feeling for a couple of seconds on decel with the throttle completely closed - as if it is running out of fuel. As soon as the throttle is opened even just a fraction it disappears and all if back to normal. From reading the FAQ on the V&H site it seems as if the injectors are indeed shut down under these conditions to reduce decel pop. I woundn't say is a harsh transition between the dead felling and slight throttle - quite sommth actually. I just find it a bit disconcerting when the engine goes flat for a second or two - like it has cut out. Two issues: 1) I don't like the feeling and 2) bit concerned about whether this hurts the motor in any way.

V&H recognise that this effect exists (see FAQ's on their website) and suggest increasing the numbers on mode 23, but don't suggest by how much.

Interested in the experience af anyone who has been down this road.....

Also Jeffytune: grateful if you could shed any more light on how mode 23 works - you left me hanging on!

Thanks all in advance

[Jeffytune]

I try to avoid talking specifics of how I think it works, I do not work for V&H, but I have been asked politely to not theorize on an Open forum.

From what I have learned..... The fuelpak shunts the injectors on decel (no fuel) to prevent popping.


Cell 23, Tells the fuel at what RPM to come back on. If it comes on too soon, you get backfiring and popping, to late and you can get decel stalling.

[alanmcgregor]

Originally Posted by Jeffytune

I try to avoid talking specifics of how I think it works, I do not work for V&H, but I have been asked politely to not theorize on an Open forum.

From what I have learned..... The fuelpak shunts the injectors on decel(no fuel) to prevent popping.
Cell 23, Tells the fuel at what RPM to come back on.

Sir you are a gentleman.

Diplomatic AND helpful.

I'm going to guess that by increasing mode 23, the fuel comes back on earlier in the overall scheme of things. Guess I'll start experimenting, one point at a time and see what the 'seat of the pants' have to say. Figure if this approach is suggested by V&H for this specific purpose it can't do any harm - even if the rest is largely guesswork.

Thank you

Alan

[Jeffytune]

Alan, that is not quite correct, you can throw the fuel curve out far enough by playing with the numbers to cause damage.

That is the main reason why V&H does not want the info out there, someone with just enough info to think they can adjust it without using a dyno, and burning a piston, and waisting a 5K engine.

I advise against adjusting it.

[alanmcgregor]

Originally Posted by Jeffytune

Alan, that is not quite correct, you can throw the fuel curve out far enough by playing with the numbers to cause damage.

That is the main reason why V&H does not want the info out there, someone with just enough info to think they can adjust it without using a dyno, and burning a piston, and waisting a 5K engine.

I advise against adjusting it.

Thanks

But.... look at FAQ under support and you'll see V&H saying openly and publiclly to incease the the numbers on mode 23 to reduce the runnining out of fuel syptoms on decel. Surely this wouln't be up there if there was a risk of many customers blowing a £5K engine? I do like the product but I don't like the 'smoke and mirrors' either.

I appreciate that this is 'self help' but surely we can openly discuss a V&H suggested change?

I get, undertand and value the product within the limited range of what it can do. I also understand the commercial sensitivity of the mode settings.

But..... is this thread not about helping us all get the most out of it within the understood rules?

Surely discussing a V&H suggested change to mode 23 is within the 'rules', and if there were any realistic risk of £5k motors expolding as a result... then we and v&H are in deep doo doo. If you can't trust the advice on the website then what confidence can we have in the product mapping - blind faith?

I'm just an honest punter wanting top get rid of the stone dead feeling on decel. Personally I'd rather have the popping - providing that, that too is not going to desstroy a £5K motor.......

Which begs the question: why can't the aftermarket come up with products the truely work straight out of the box? I mean we might as well stay stock - then where would we all be? Assuming V&H read this - get with the programme chaps....... shutting the injectors down on decel feels like c**p: at least to this humble but less than fully satisfied customer.

[Shriner Jim]

Originally Posted by alanmcgregor

Thanks

But.... look at FAQ under support and you'll see V&H saying openly and publiclly to incease the the numbers on mode 23 to reduce the runnining out of fuel syptoms on decel. Surely this wouln't be up there if there was a risk of many customers blowing a £5K engine? I do like the product but I don't like the 'smoke and mirrors' either.

I appreciate that this is 'self help' but surely we can openly discuss a V&H suggested change?

I get, undertand and value the product within the limited range of what it can do. I also understand the commercial sensitivity of the mode settings.

But..... is this thread not about helping us all get the most out of it within the understood rules?

Surely discussing a V&H suggested change to mode 23 is within the 'rules', and if there were any realistic risk of £5k motors expolding as a result... then we and v&H are in deep doo doo. If you can't trust the advice on the website then what confidence can we have in the product mapping - blind faith?

I'm just an honest punter wanting top get rid of the stone dead feeling on decel. Personally I'd rather have the popping - providing that, that too is not going to desstroy a £5K motor.......

Which begs the question: why can't the aftermarket come up with products the truely work straight out of the box? I mean we might as well stay stock - then where would we all be? Assuming V&H read this - get with the programme chaps....... shutting the injectors down on decel feels like c**p: at least to this humble but less than fully satisfied customer.

Alan:
I sympathize with you, completely. I find it absurd that V&H would tell anyone on this discussion board that they should shut up. I have read all of Jeffytune's comments concerning the FP, and frankly I think he is likely the most knowledgeable "amatuer" around.
I did notice one thing in reading one of your earlier posts, you corrected your FP version from 13 to 12. Mine is version 13. This may be the reason that my ride doesn't pop on decel nor does it have the flat spot. Sounds like V&H must have been fine tuning something from V12 to V13....Whatdaya think?
Jim

[FatBoy912]

I am new to this post but for sure thankful considering it has helped with the decision of not going with the SERT for a Stage 1 upgrade even though that is what the dealer is pushing. I have an '08 FatBoy that I have already bought the SE Stage 1 AC for as well as V&H Big Shot Longs. I have held off installing these until the 1k service figuring I would do it all at once with the SERT. Now that idea is out the window as I am opting for the FuelPak and saving the extra money. Is there an advantage to having the Stage 1 download along with the FuelPak? Also will the FuelPak support a "mild" cam swap like the SE 204? What are shops generally charging for the Stage 1 download?

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by FatBoy912

I am new to this post but for sure thankful considering it has helped with the decision of not going with the SERT for a Stage 1 upgrade even though that is what the dealer is pushing. I have an '08 FatBoy that I have already bought the SE Stage 1 AC for as well as V&H Big Shot Longs. I have held off installing these until the 1k service figuring I would do it all at once with the SERT. Now that idea is out the window as I am opting for the FuelPak and saving the extra money. Is there an advantage to having the Stage 1 download along with the FuelPak? Also will the FuelPak support a "mild" cam swap like the SE 204? What are shops generally charging for the Stage 1 download?

Hi.

Ok, If all you plan is a stage one, then, no there is not real advantage to having the dealer stage one download, there is a program for both usually.

As to cams, I had a set of se-255 given to me, I asked V&H about this, and they said they they didn't have a program to use those cams with the stock ECM in a 96 cid engine.
Now, If I were to install them with the factory 103 kit, and the 103 download, then I am ok, as then have that open on file.

So the answer was, no, BUT........

Since the se-255 is popular with 96 2007 owners, they offered me this deal....

If I will bring my bike to they (In Santa Fe springs California) they will make and appointment to use my bike as a "Dyno Dog" to build up a program for me, free of charge.

They get to keep and use this program for others who want to install these cams, and I get a free dyno tuning.

Now before you think they treat me differently then there other customers, they really do not, to then I am just another customer.

So the answer is, if they have your engine/cams/pipes and filer combo on file, your good to go. If they do not, then you may have to ask and then take your bike to them.

Just another example of how fine a company Vance and Hines really is.

[FatBoy912]

Well JT I have to agree with the masses this is a great Post and you are a great wealth of information on the subject. Ordering the Fuelpak next week from American Classic Motors, could have ordered in February with the pipes if I knew then what I know now, thanks again!

[ceraaa42]

Originally Posted by FatBoy912

Well JT I have to agree with the masses this is a great Post and you are a great wealth of information on the subject. Ordering the Fuelpak next week from American Classic Motors, could have ordered in February with the pipes if I knew then what I know now, thanks again!

FWIW, you might want to read the thread in the dealer experiences forum about American Classic.

Chris

[FirNaTineNJ]

I just ordered mine last week from American Classic Motors & had no problem. I ordered it on a Thursday, got an email that it was shipped on Tuesday & received it the following Thursday. No one anywhere could beat that price. However, I didn't read that thread until after I had already ordered. I probably would have gone somewhere else had I found that first. Luckily I everything went smoothly & I didn't have to call them...