Vance & Hines Fuelpak Talk.

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by Shriner Jim

Jeffytune:
My ride is an '08 Ultra Classic. It was HOT right out of the box. I kinda liked the Nightrider.com Wide Band O2 Sensor upgrade. I did that and my fuel mpg went from 39-40 to about 38. This was no big deal, however the bike didn't sound harley enough. I put on Rush slip-ons, 2" baffle. I immediately popped on decel. My right leg still burns on a hot day.
I ordered V&H true duals, K&N air filter and a V&H Fuelpak. I don't have them yet, my ebay salesman is a bit sluggish.
Do you think that I can leave the Nightrider fix on? Nightrider.com says it is compatible. If I can leave it on, why should I......Thanks in advance for your opinion.
Shriner Jim

Hi Jim.

No, take them off.
There not wide band oxygen sensors, they are rich biased oxygen sensors. Instead of centering the AFR at 14.7:1, they center more like 13.9:1.

With that in mind, when there Vance and Hines engineers test and set up the programs for the Fuelpak, they are setting it up with stock oxygen sensors, a O2 that is off center, will through the mixture off, run far too rich and then set codes and or foul the plugs out.

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by Ultra RB

2008 Ultra, stock ECM, SE air filter, V&H Oval slip-ons, 61009 FuelPak, FP-1717 map.

Problem one was the lag in the throttle when starting off. V&H rep suggested changing mode 1 to 7 and mode 5 to 25 .... this has not eliminated the problem but helped a lot.

Problem two is popping on deceleration. V&H rep suggested changing mode 23 to 15 ... this helped but the amount of popping is still excessive. On another call to V&H they suggested that they could not adjust mode 23 any further down as it would result in engine stall on longer hill decelerations. The suggested that open exhaust systems tend to pop ... I suggested that this was not the case on my 95" build on my previous Ultra with a similar setup. Bottom line was there was nothing further they could adjust and to live with it.

Any suggestions on the decel popping issue?

Thanks,
RB

Hi.

Well, V&H have been on the ball here, and I see they have done some fine tuning to the program.

I would suggest you try a couple things.

1) Check the exhaust for ANY leaks, even a small air leak can draw in air to the system, and they will cause popping.

2) Take your bike to a shop and have a dyno base line run done, make sure the tech does a WOT and part throttle and record the temps.
With this print out, Vance and Hines engineers can make a more detailed adjustment for your bike.

3) You must understand, there is a big difference between your last bikes FI system and your new bike. The old system was an open loop system that you could adjust far easier to run rich enough to tame down the popping, your new system not only has O2 control, it has an electric throttle, the ECM knows how rich or lean it is, and will try to bring it back to center (14.7:1).

Also, how you ride will have some control over popping as well, do you downshift to stop the bike or do you pull in the clutch and use the brakes?
Try using the brakes instead of the engine to stop, and I think the popping will go away.

[Ultra RB]

Originally Posted by Jeffytune

Hi.

Well, V&H have been on the ball here, and I see they have done some fine tuning to the program.

I would suggest you try a couple things.

1) Check the exhaust for ANY leaks, even a small air leak can draw in air to the system, and they will cause popping.

2) Take your bike to a shop and have a dyno base line run done, make sure the tech does a WOT and part throttle and record the temps.
With this print out, Vance and Hines engineers can make a more detailed adjustment for your bike.

3) You must understand, there is a big difference between your last bikes FI system and your new bike. The old system was an open loop system that you could adjust far easier to run rich enough to tame down the popping, your new system not only has O2 control, it has an electric throttle, the ECM knows how rich or lean it is, and will try to bring it back to center (14.7:1).

Also, how you ride will have some control over popping as well, do you downshift to stop the bike or do you pull in the clutch and use the brakes?
Try using the brakes instead of the engine to stop, and I think the popping will go away.

Jeffytune, thanks for the suggestions. I will take a good look and a wrench to my exhaust components to make sure there are no leaks ... this bike only has 750 miles on it so I'd hope there isn't any leaks yet but I will double check.

That said the bike didn't have any throttle lag or backfiring in stock configuration ... and the only reason I actually went to the Ovals was for the sound, not so much for the extra power ... I am considering taking the FuelPak out of the system and just trying the Ovals and SE air cleaner alone. I suspect this would result in a lean condition and would wonder about possible long term engine damage ... what are your thoughts on that?

Thanks,
R

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by Ultra RB

Jeffytune, thanks for the suggestions. I will take a good look and a wrench to my exhaust components to make sure there are no leaks ... this bike only has 750 miles on it so I'd hope there isn't any leaks yet but I will double check.

That said the bike didn't have any throttle lag or backfiring in stock configuration ... and the only reason I actually went to the Ovals was for the sound, not so much for the extra power ... I am considering taking the FuelPak out of the system and just trying the Ovals and SE air cleaner alone. I suspect this would result in a lean condition and would wonder about possible long term engine damage ... what are your thoughts on that?

Thanks,
R

I wouldn't suggest it, it would be very lean, enough to damage engine components.

I have not done a version 13 (For electric throttle) install, but I ASSUME that cell 19 is still the throttle calibration?

If so, redo it.
I like to use the one-one thousand roll smoothly to wide open throttle, and One- one thousand to closed.
The smoother you do it, the better it will learn it.

Try that and see if it doesn't improve.

JT

[Ultra RB]

Originally Posted by Jeffytune

I wouldn't suggest it, it would be very lean, enough to damage engine components.

I have not done a version 13 (For electric throttle) install, but I ASSUME that cell 19 is still the throttle calibration?

If so, redo it.
I like to use the one-one thousand roll smoothly to wide open throttle, and One- one thousand to closed.
The smoother you do it, the better it will learn it.

Try that and see if it doesn't improve.

JT

I'll have to take a look at 19 ... can't remember off hand what the value is. They did suggest that 23 go down one setting (16 to 15) and that has helped ... the way the guy explained it was that this setting controls the fuel going to the engine at closed throttle ... and to take it back any further could result in an engine stall on long downhill decelerations ...

So resetting 19 ... I take it you mean set it back to zero then back to the V&H suggested setting? THe ECM 'learns' your throttle habbits?

Thanks,
RB

[Jeffytune]

Hi RB.

Again, I have not had the opportunity to install a version 13, on the version 12 (With standard throttle) cell 19 is the throttle set, you wide open throttle it, then close it. This calibrates the fuelpak to the throttle position sensor.

The throttle set is critical to the fuelpak working correctly, but with the electric throttle, it may not have a throttle set.

[FirNaTineNJ]

Hi all,

I have an '07 FLHRS. I am installing a Kuryakyn Hypercharger (I know, I know) and V&H True Duals with V&H 4" slip-ons. Currently I have SE Performance Touring slip-ons & a SE high flow AC on it & the dealer did a stage I map update when I did all that. My question is, when I install the V&H Fuelpak, will the new map be correct over the MOCO's stage I map?

Thanks!

Chris

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by FirNaTineNJ

Hi all,

I have an '07 FLHRS. I am installing a Kuryakyn Hypercharger (I know, I know) and V&H True Duals with V&H 4" slip-ons. Currently I have SE Performance Touring slip-ons & a SE high flow AC on it & the dealer did a stage I map update when I did all that. My question is, when I install the V&H Fuelpak, will the new map be correct over the MOCO's stage I map?

Thanks!

Chris

Hi Chris.

There are programs set with the stock ECM program, and ones set with the stage one download.
You just need to use the one with the stage one and the setup you have.

http://www.fuelpakfi.com/harley1.html

[FirNaTineNJ]

I figured that, just wanted to be sure because I didn't see it mentioned anywhere on here...

Thanks!

[Jeffytune]

Your most welcome.

Please post back once you have it up and running.

[DCRANER]

On my 07 FLHRS I have the FuelPak setting FP-0674, runs nice.

Now, a buddy of mine suggested setting Mode # 17 from the current 0 to a 3 to 5 range. He did a 3 on his 08 FatBoy and it did work well, supposed to richen up the idle. It did knock his temps down more than before.

So, will give this a try, but can I just change #17 or do I have to do all the steps like from the initial install?

[Shriner Jim]

Originally Posted by Jeffytune

Hi Jim.

No, take them off.
There not wide band oxygen sensors, they are rich biased oxygen sensors. Instead of centering the AFR at 14.7:1, they center more like 13.9:1.

With that in mind, when there Vance and Hines engineers test and set up the programs for the Fuelpak, they are setting it up with stock oxygen sensors, a O2 that is off center, will through the mixture off, run far too rich and then set codes and or foul the plugs out.

Jeffytune:
I took your advice. I installed the V&H true duals, Rush mufflers with 2" baffles, K&N a/c, Fuelpak and removed the LC-1s. I set the Fuelpak according to the V&H website. I rode about 90 miles, it ran really well, no popping on decel. It appears to have regained the fuel economy it once had. The only problem, the heat is back. The Nightrider.com LC-1s truly decrease the heat by enriching the mixture (mine was set to about 13.5:1 AFR). I was actually forced to remove the LC-1s when I installed the V&H true dual headers. The LC-1 O2 sensor was too long to fit in the limited room on the rear cylinder. I will likely try the Nightrider O2 IED fix. This is supposed to drop the 14.7:1 AFR to about 14.2:1 AFR. Reports on HD Forum indicate that this fix works well to reduce the higher heat on the rear jug. Have you tried them or know anyone else that has? Thanks again for your advice, it proved to be very good advice.
Regards
Shriner Jim

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by Shriner Jim

Jeffytune:
I took your advice. I installed the V&H true duals, Rush mufflers with 2" baffles, K&N a/c, Fuelpak and removed the LC-1s. I set the Fuelpak according to the V&H website. I rode about 90 miles, it ran really well, no popping on decel. It appears to have regained the fuel economy it once had. The only problem, the heat is back. The Nightrider.com LC-1s truly decrease the heat by enriching the mixture (mine was set to about 13.5:1 AFR). I was actually forced to remove the LC-1s when I installed the V&H true dual headers. The LC-1 O2 sensor was too long to fit in the limited room on the rear cylinder. I will likely try the Nightrider O2 IED fix. This is supposed to drop the 14.7:1 AFR to about 14.2:1 AFR. Reports on HD Forum indicate that this fix works well to reduce the higher heat on the rear jug. Have you tried them or know anyone else that has? Thanks again for your advice, it proved to be very good advice.
Regards
Shriner Jim

Hi Jim.

No, I can't say that I have talked with anyone that has used them with a fuelpak, I would still caution against it though.

Talk with V&H about you heat concerns, I bet they have a second program you can use to cool things down.


Toll free tech line. : (800) 592-2529

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by DCRANER

On my 07 FLHRS I have the FuelPak setting FP-0674, runs nice.

Now, a buddy of mine suggested setting Mode # 17 from the current 0 to a 3 to 5 range. He did a 3 on his 08 FatBoy and it did work well, supposed to richen up the idle. It did knock his temps down more than before.

So, will give this a try, but can I just change #17 or do I have to do all the steps like from the initial install?

I would caution against this, each model is a bit diffrerent, and what may work on a softail per-say, may cause problems on a touring model.

The ECM's are different, the programs are different.