Vance & Hines Fuelpak Talk.

[jpowell490]

Hey all,

Have been reading through all pages of this post, great info. Have a few questions. I have a 2008 Night Train with RUSH 2.25 slip ons, K&N 1499 filter, and the fuelpak. I do not intent on doing any other mods, so I went with the fuelpak. The bike seems to run good, but I do have some silver on the white of the sparkplugs, which worries me a bit, seems a bit lean. I am using FP-0770 which the tech support at VH tells me is plenty rich. The slipon exits are black, so it seems ok. Now down to the real part.

I mounted this under my seat of course and had room to put the connector and the FuelPak on top of the battery. The seat seems to fit well. I have a couple of questions. Does it hurt the fuelpak to sit on it like that? And will the heat from the battery affect it any? I checked it after a long ride yesterday and it did not show any signs of abuse from sitting and it was cool.

Thanks for any info.

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by jpowell490

Hey all,

Have been reading through all pages of this post, great info. Have a few questions. I have a 2008 Night Train with RUSH 2.25 slip ons, K&N 1499 filter, and the fuelpak. I do not intent on doing any other mods, so I went with the fuelpak. The bike seems to run good, but I do have some silver on the white of the sparkplugs, which worries me a bit, seems a bit lean. I am using FP-0770 which the tech support at VH tells me is plenty rich. The slipon exits are black, so it seems ok. Now down to the real part.

I mounted this under my seat of course and had room to put the connector and the FuelPak on top of the battery. The seat seems to fit well. I have a couple of questions. Does it hurt the fuelpak to sit on it like that? And will the heat from the battery affect it any? I checked it after a long ride yesterday and it did not show any signs of abuse from sitting and it was cool.

Thanks for any info.

Hi.

You really can't go by what the plugs would look like if it had a carburetor, with closed loop fuel injection, they will be white like you found.

How's the heat feel, is the bike running as hot as it did before you installed the fuelpak?

Hows the mileage?

If you are still worried, have a simple two run dyno run done on your bike.

Just be sure to tell the dyno guy that the FP will shunt the injectors on decell, so before he does a run, have him hold throttle for 10 seconds, then go.


If it comes out too lean, then you can e-mail that to Vance and Hines for them to analyze it to see if adjustments are needed to what cell.

[jpowell490]

Jeffy,

Thanks for the response. Well I couldn't say it made much of a difference until last night. I called and talked to derek, it was popping if I sat at idle and reved the motor a bit. So he had me change cell 1 to 6 and cell 2 to 8. They were like 13 and 17. It turned it into a MONSTER!

I have no idea what that did, with the number being lower you would think it would have made it leaner, but I think they added fuel because it runs GREAT now. Super happy with it. My map was 0770.

Let me know what you think they did on the cell change.

Jason

[Jeffytune]

They won't tell me either, but it sounds like they have it runnin' right.

[mirpaw]

jeffytune, you the man. I just put v&h slip-ons and fuel pak on my 07 rk based on the information you provided here. It was the easiest thing i have put on to date and works perfectly, Thanks. I think my fuel economy will suffer more because I can't stay off the throttle.

[jpowell490]

Jeffy,

They told me they leaned it out a bit. I believe them because I drove it the next day and heard a bit of pinging from the front cylinder, so I changed it back to the factory settings. It is running great on the factory settings, of course my bike is breaking in a bit too now, I only have 450 miles on the new night train. But it is running great now, I still notice pretty good heat coming up when at a redlight, but I suppose that is normal.

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by mirpaw

jeffytune, you the man. I just put v&h slip-ons and fuel pak on my 07 rk based on the information you provided here. It was the easiest thing i have put on to date and works perfectly, Thanks. I think my fuel economy will suffer more because I can't stay off the throttle.

Yes, that can be a issue......

Ride safe.

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by jpowell490

Jeffy,

They told me they leaned it out a bit. I believe them because I drove it the next day and heard a bit of pinging from the front cylinder, so I changed it back to the factory settings. It is running great on the factory settings, of course my bike is breaking in a bit too now, I only have 450 miles on the new night train. But it is running great now, I still notice pretty good heat coming up when at a redlight, but I suppose that is normal.

The heat is a Issue due to the Oxygen sensor control, but it should be better then it was stock.

The Pinging worries me, V&H are quiet conservative in there recommended adjustments, It makes me thing you may have a Intake seal leaking.
You might want to have your dealer give it a look, that should be under warranty.

[jpowell490]

Jeffy,

I have been hearing that mode 17 I believe, it is 0 on most maps. They are saying that is the idle circuit for the fuelpak. I am thinking of putting a 6 in there and seeing if that helps any, what do you think.

Jason

[Jeffytune]

This is the first I have heard of it.
Did they say it was for Idle speed or Idle mixture?
I think before you try it, I'd ask V&H.

[AeroSport]

I have been following the discussions about the various fuel management systems and I have a question for those of you that are running the V&H fuel pak? As I understand it that system does not use any O2 sensor eliminators or any method of adjusting the closed loop area on 07 and later bikes. When you have them adjust the map, what is it that they are adjusting? If they can’t adjust the closed loop area, they must be just doing 100% throttle dyno runs when developing the maps? How much time do you spend at WOT? Just how good can the bikes run with no adjustment in the area where you spend most of your riding time? Do the bikes still run hot because they still retain the factory super lean settings in the normal riding range? Do they still have any hesitation off idle like is common with stock bikes. What are your experiences with the unit? Are you really seeing any benefit with only a partially remapped fuel curve. This stuff is somewhat confusing so your thoughts and comments are appreciated. Thanks

[Jaybo]

Originally Posted by jpowell490

Jeffy,

I have been hearing that mode 17 I believe, it is 0 on most maps. They are saying that is the idle circuit for the fuelpak. I am thinking of putting a 6 in there and seeing if that helps any, what do you think.

Jason

If it is running great as you mentioned a couple of posts ago, I wouldn't mess with it anymore. Just enjoy the ride.

Any changes made outside of the V&H recommended settings should not be performed unless you have their concurrence that it is ok.

[ceraaa42]

Originally Posted by jpowell490

Jeffy,

I have been hearing that mode 17 I believe, it is 0 on most maps. They are saying that is the idle circuit for the fuelpak. I am thinking of putting a 6 in there and seeing if that helps any, what do you think.

Jason

It's very tempting to want to experiment with the fuelpak. If you do this it can be at your own peril. If you get it lean, it could turn your exhaut yellow or even go as far as seriously hurt your engine.

Chris

[izzi mike]

the beauty of the f/p (for me) is you set it to whatever your set-up is,and ride. if you plug it in and it runs good.... thats it. if you have issues and v/h gives you something that works........ thats it. if you need to tweak , get a DTT or pcIII so you can review your data. some things i need not mess with, and fuel management/ecm is one of them.

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by AeroSport

I have been following the discussions about the various fuel management systems and I have a question for those of you that are running the V&H fuel pak? As I understand it that system does not use any O2 sensor eliminators or any method of adjusting the closed loop area on 07 and later bikes. When you have them adjust the map, what is it that they are adjusting? If they can’t adjust the closed loop area, they must be just doing 100% throttle dyno runs when developing the maps? How much time do you spend at WOT? Just how good can the bikes run with no adjustment in the area where you spend most of your riding time? Do the bikes still run hot because they still retain the factory super lean settings in the normal riding range? Do they still have any hesitation off idle like is common with stock bikes. What are your experiences with the unit? Are you really seeing any benefit with only a partially remapped fuel curve. This stuff is somewhat confusing so your thoughts and comments are appreciated. Thanks

Hi Sport.

Ok, I think you are confusing the newer Air fuel systems (Like the Thundermax autotune and DTT) and a oxygen sensor system.
An Air fuel sensor can operate in a wide range of fuel conditions, (anything from 7:1 to 19:1 AFR).
An oxygen sensor works in a far narrower area (14:1 to 15.3:1), so the Harley system only is in closed loop at Idle and while holding speed. Decal and acceleration, the system is in open loop.
Also, what every system out there is trying to do is correct the VE (Volumetric Efficiency) program in the ECM one way or another.
When we install low restriction exhaust and air filters, we are adding to how much air can flow in and out of the engine. Harley's do not use a Mass air flow sensor, they use a speed density system to set the Injection ratio.

The fuelpak, in it's simplest form (As I understand it) is in line with the ECM, it reads the same information the ECM does, recalculates and intercepts the injection signal, and adjusts it to the program V&H gives you to put in.
At Idle, or holding speed, when the O2's are active, the load is at it least, so why not use the O2's at that point even if it's at 14.7:1? Because the load is low, the heat it generates will be low as well.
Once you crack the throttle, your in open loop, the O2's are just along for the ride, and the fuelpak can change the fuel curve to what it needs to be, per the program.
Since the fuelpak is in-line with the ECM, and is reading the TPS, it can even speed up the delivery to a throttle opening event, getting rid of of hesitation.
It is a very complex system you get in this little package.