Vance & Hines Fuelpak Talk.

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by Kauai_Jim

After reading this thread from front to back, I went out and got the FuelPak for my 08 ultra and did the HD high flow filter with the stock pipes. I have a set of hooker turndown true duals but when I got them, the heat shields were dinged up so While I'm waiting for replacements I wanted to play with the stock pipes. It seems to work pretty well except the fly by wire throttle seems like there's a lot of slop in the beginning. I tried to do the throttle calibration suggested back in the thread for #19 to no avail. Is there a different throttle cal for the fly by wire throttles?
Any help appreciated
Aloha!

Hi Jim.

I would like to talk about this, but for now, let us leave the fuelpak part of it out of this dissuasion, as I think what your asking is more to do with the fly by wire throttle lag.
I think the best place to start is to understand just how the electric throttle work, basically, the throttle now has a rheostat that sends a signal to the ECM, the ECM then takes the signal, calculates the fuel and throttle opening needed, then it opens the throttle.
This is far different from the 2007 with cables, in that system, the cable opens the throttle, and the ECM reads the throttle position sensor, and then plays catch up to get the fuel delivery in time with the air flow in from the throttle.
So, yes the electric throttle has a heart beat lag in real time, but that is so the ECM can set everything for the throttle to be opened.

Now, back to the Fuelpak, I have no Information on if the fuelpak has any impact on, or changes the way the ECM opens the throttle, you will need to ask Vance and Hines directly for that info.

I recommend that you do, as this may give them feedback to this new system and there programing of there new units.

[Kauai_Jim]

Thanks Jeffytune,
I appreciate your input. I will contact them tomorrow and post what I find out.

Just a couple of notes on my previous post. The problem is between zero throttle and about the 1st 10 degrees or so... no response! Not so with the stock ECM. When riding along and backing off the throttle to zero, then rolling it forward slightly, there's a point where the engine stumbles. What I'm looking to do is tighten up that 10 degrees and get rid of the stumble.

I have only had this on for 1 day and took a ride from the south shore to the north shore. What I did notice is that it dropped my oil temperature 10-15 degrees. I also got 44 mpg which is not too shabby for this little rock in the middle of the pacific with a lot of stop and go traffic. Next time I get a chance I am going to throw my Wide band exhaust gas analyzer probe in the tail pipe to see what kind of AFR's I'm getting.

[Jeffytune]

I could theorize a guess that the curve is out for your set up do to the stock mufflers being still on the bike.

All these fuel programs are set by there dyno engineering staff to work with the items they used to come up with that Fuel program.

My suggestion to you is to park the bike for now until your muffler system can be installed, but still, check with Vance and Hines tech staff for further guidance.

[gilb66]

I just purchased and installed the V&H true duals, oval mufflers and the fuel pak. I have the SE AC and installed the appropriate map for this without the download. I did a small trip 270 miles overall that I do regularly mostly on the Interstate with a lot of hills (Arizona). I normally get around 40MPG, don't think I ever got over 41 on this especially running a consistent 80 MPH. I got 44.2 after the install, running 80MPH on 90% of this trip, so I am very pleased and can tell the difference in the heat as well. I also like the sound - not too loud at cruise but you can make it fairly loud on take off. I have an 08 FLTRI (Roadglide) and do not experience the throttle lag that was mentioned in the above posts. The bike really runs great!

One thing I was wondering about, I used the T-bolts to clamp the mufflers that come with the duals, not the clamps that come with the Ovals. Seems like they really tighten well, but are a little unsightly, as the long stud part is really visible. I guess I could cut the stud off but it still sticks out there a bit. What has anyone else done on this? or is it better to use the clamps that came with the ovals instead of the duals?

Gilb

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by gilb66

I just purchased and installed the V&H true duals, oval mufflers and the fuel pak. I have the SE AC and installed the appropriate map for this without the download. I did a small trip 270 miles overall that I do regularly mostly on the Interstate with a lot of hills (Arizona). I normally get around 40MPG, don't think I ever got over 41 on this especially running a consistent 80 MPH. I got 44.2 after the install, running 80MPH on 90% of this trip, so I am very pleased and can tell the difference in the heat as well. I also like the sound - not too loud at cruise but you can make it fairly loud on take off. I have an 08 FLTRI (Roadglide) and do not experience the throttle lag that was mentioned in the above posts. The bike really runs great!

One thing I was wondering about, I used the T-bolts to clamp the mufflers that come with the duals, not the clamps that come with the Ovals. Seems like they really tighten well, but are a little unsightly, as the long stud part is really visible. I guess I could cut the stud off but it still sticks out there a bit. What has anyone else done on this? or is it better to use the clamps that came with the ovals instead of the duals?

Gilb

Hi Gilb,
I am glad to hear how well the system is working for you.
As to the stud Issue, if you cut it, then if you needed to remove it(Say to change a rear tire) then the clamp may not release enough to let the muffler slip off.
I would rotate the clamp so the stud it pointing down (towards the ground) and behind the pipe, and put a chrome or stainless steel acorn nut.

[Kauai_Jim]

Ok,
Just got off the phone with Adam and he suggested I change Mode 23 to 17 or 18 to make the fuel come on a little sooner so I am going to make the adjustment before I leave work. When I get home I'll post the results.

Jeffytune,
I was wondering if there is a post that has all the known modes and their functions?
By the way, I was told by Adam that for the "Fly by wire" fuelpak models that there is no "fudge factor" for the throttle position so the Mode 19 doesn't work.
Aloha
Jim

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by Kauai_Jim

Ok,
Just got off the phone with Adam and he suggested I change Mode 23 to 17 or 18 to make the fuel come on a little sooner so I am going to make the adjustment before I leave work. When I get home I'll post the results.

Jeffytune,
I was wondering if there is a post that has all the known modes and their functions?
By the way, I was told by Adam that for the "Fly by wire" fuelpak models that there is no "fudge factor" for the throttle position so the Mode 19 doesn't work.
Aloha
Jim

Hi Jim.

Thanks for the Info, and I am sorry to say that Vance and Hines has not released any tuning info on the cells.
There Engineering team keeps that under lock and key as it were.

What we have found here is, if there is a problem with the running of a bike, a way you can help V&H's team see what is going on is to get a two run dyno test done and e-mail them the results.
That way they can see what the fuel curve is doing in your bike, and they can make some corrections for your fuel map if needed.
But there team wants to be the one to do the adjustments.

And the nice thing about this, so far they have done this for us free of charge.

[Semp]

Jeffytune

My buddy bought a fuelpak for his 2008 touring bike (Ultra). The instructions say to mount the fuelpak on the fuse box cover on the left side of the bike. We decided to mount the fuelpak on top of the ecu under the seat instead.

Are there any problems with mounting the fuelpak this way that you know of? It seemed a lot simpler than trying to run the wire under the frame to the left side but now I am concerned that it was a dumb move.

Thanks for your help.

[Kauai_Jim]

In June I am shipping the bike to California for a 5 states ride. My parents live about 5 miles from Santa Fe Springs so I might just run the 08 by there and see if they want to give it a run..... If nothing else, it might be interesting to just check the place out.

[gilb66]

Originally Posted by Jeffytune

Hi Gilb,
I am glad to hear how well the system is working for you.
As to the stud Issue, if you cut it, then if you needed to remove it(Say to change a rear tire) then the clamp may not release enough to let the muffler slip off.
I would rotate the clamp so the stud it pointing down (towards the ground) and behind the pipe, and put a chrome or stainless steel acorn nut.

Jeffytune, on this kind of clamp the way it is made you cannot rotate it to the bottom. Because of the shield it does not allow you to do this, so this is the only position it can be in, I think. It seems like it would be this way on any bike running the True duals and using this type of clamp, no matter what year.

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by Semp

Jeffytune

My buddy bought a fuelpak for his 2008 touring bike (Ultra). The instructions say to mount the fuelpak on the fuse box cover on the left side of the bike. We decided to mount the fuelpak on top of the ecu under the seat instead.

Are there any problems with mounting the fuelpak this way that you know of? It seemed a lot simpler than trying to run the wire under the frame to the left side but now I am concerned that it was a dumb move.

Thanks for your help.

I have a 2007, and the ECU is under the Right side cover, so I do not know if it will or won't work. As long as you have seat clearance, and i would bet that is the why, the don't want the seat to crack the housing.

I would say it would be best to follow the mounting instruction, but it wouldn't hurt to give V&H a call either.

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by Kauai_Jim

In June I am shipping the bike to California for a 5 states ride. My parents live about 5 miles from Santa Fe Springs so I might just run the 08 by there and see if they want to give it a run..... If nothing else, it might be interesting to just check the place out.

I did the same thing last summer, but I will tell you, beyond a customer service person to talk with, and if there's time, a plant tour, that is about all they can do. They don't do runs on customer bikes.
I think they said the dyno shop was in another location.

But they are nice people to meet, just make sure you call and set an appointment with they so they know your coming.

But they do like to talk with customers for feedback, so if your going to be in town, you should.

BTW, I grew up in La Habra....were are your Parents at?

[bfancy]

Originally Posted by Jeffytune

I did the same thing last summer, but I will tell you, beyond a customer service person to talk with, and if there's time, a plant tour, that is about all they can do. They don't do runs on customer bikes.
I think they said the dyno shop was in another location.

But they are nice people to meet, just make sure you call and set an appointment with they so they know your coming.

But they do like to talk with customers for feedback, so if your going to be in town, you should.

BTW, I grew up in La Habra....were are your Parents at?

Hi,
First time posting on this forum. From reading the posts there are some very informed and helpful people here and you are to be commended.
I have a 2005 Ultra Calssic, SE air filter, stock headpipes, Stage 1 ECM upgrade and Vance and Hines Classic slip-ons (16719). The setup is working well: great sound, performance, and no hesitations or decel popping. However my right muffler is starting to turn a bit golden in color in one place rear of the connection to the headpipe. I recently installed the V&H fuelpak and used the FP-0076 map. I won't be able to try it out until about late April (currently 2 metres of snow and still falling lol) but do you think the fuelpak fuel map will prevent my muffler from further discoloring?
Thanks in advance for any replies.
Brian

[Jaybo]

Originally Posted by gilb66

Jeffytune, on this kind of clamp the way it is made you cannot rotate it to the bottom. Because of the shield it does not allow you to do this, so this is the only position it can be in, I think. It seems like it would be this way on any bike running the True duals and using this type of clamp, no matter what year.

gilb66:

I know what you mean. I have the true duals on my 08 RK as well. When I originally installed the pipes, it was a eye sore to me, but now, I'm just use to it. It doesn't bother me anymore. As Jeffytune said, you don't want to hack it, cause if you have to remove it or adjust it, you may end up not having enough thread. You could try to figure out just how much thread you need to make any adjustment or to remove it and cut the difference. Otherwise, just leave it and you'll eventually forget about it.

[Jaybo]

Originally Posted by Semp

Jeffytune

My buddy bought a fuelpak for his 2008 touring bike (Ultra). The instructions say to mount the fuelpak on the fuse box cover on the left side of the bike. We decided to mount the fuelpak on top of the ecu under the seat instead.

Are there any problems with mounting the fuelpak this way that you know of? It seemed a lot simpler than trying to run the wire under the frame to the left side but now I am concerned that it was a dumb move.

Thanks for your help.

I'm glad this question has been posted, cause I went through the same issue while installing the fuelpak. I also thought about installing the fuelpak under the seat. Unfortunately, I noticed that there was not enough room under the seat to prevent the seat from putting pressure on the fuelpak casing or cover. You definitely don't want to crack the case/cover.

Believe it or not, it is possible to route the wire between the frame and battery. You just need to disconnect the main connector on the left side of the battery. It's a pain in the butt to get a good grip on this connector cause it's about an inch below the frame and the wiring harness is really stiff, which prevents the connector from moving freely, but be patient, you'll get it. This will give you enough room to run the fuelpak wire down the left side. You'll have to reset the clock (if you have one) after you hook everything back up.