stage 1 and remapping : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums
» Sponsors

» Insurance
Go Back   V-Twin Forum : Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Forums > Technical Discussion Forums > Fuel Systems > EFI Discussion
New User? Register Forgot Password

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-06-2010, 06:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
FNG :)
 
oley55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: JAX, Florida
Posts: 12
oley55 wants to know Dino or Syn?
stage 1 and remapping

first I appologize for asking this as it has been covered previously in other threads to the point where I am no longer sure which way is up.

2nd not to piss anyone off, please read my questions and not get off on some radical tangents about this and that ecm controller, (thunder max and so on). I'm an old fart and am trying to keep it simple (for me). to that thanks in advance for reading and staying with the point/issue/question.

here's the situation, I have an 08 FLTR with big can Scream 'n Eagle slips ons. No brainer here, no map needed.

I plan to install the Stage 1 air cleaner. have seen posts here and other forums saying absolutely must have a remap, and on the other spectrum of experts, it is not needed as the ox sensor/control module will recalibrate without remapping.

questions are two.

1. disregarding the H-D hype that remapping is required, is it really required? Especially on an 08 with OX sensors which recalibrate on their own? 1.2 is that a warranty issue.

2. If it is really required, can a reputable independent service shop do the remap, or must I piss away $150 at the dealer?

thanks in advance for staying on task and not blabbering about everthing under the sun except the topic. damn I am getting old and grotchity......

Last edited by oley55; 05-06-2010 at 07:20 PM.
oley55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-06-2010, 07:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: VA
Posts: 133
Electraglidin' wants to know Dino or Syn?
For a really good answer from a knowledgeable source, read this...

http://www.nightrider.com/parts/hd2007hd_heat_01.htm
__________________
2007 Electra Glide Classic, Black Cherry Pearl
Xied's, Jagg 10-row oil cooler, Rush 1.5 slipons
Patriot Guard Rider
Electraglidin' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2010, 08:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
 
strokerjlk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: IL.
Posts: 6,810
strokerjlk wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by oley55 View Post
first I appologize for asking this as it has been covered previously in other threads to the point where I am no longer sure which way is up.

2nd not to piss anyone off, please read my questions and not get off on some radical tangents about this and that ecm controller, (thunder max and so on). I'm an old fart and am trying to keep it simple (for me). to that thanks in advance for reading and staying with the point/issue/question.

here's the situation, I have an 08 FLTR with big can Scream 'n Eagle slips ons. No brainer here, no map needed.

I plan to install the Stage 1 air cleaner. have seen posts here and other forums saying absolutely must have a remap, and on the other spectrum of experts, it is not needed as the ox sensor/control module will recalibrate without remapping.

questions are two.

1. disregarding the H-D hype that remapping is required, is it really required? Especially on an 08 with OX sensors which recalibrate on their own? 1.2 is that a warranty issue.

2. If it is really required, can a reputable independent service shop do the remap, or must I piss away $150 at the dealer?

thanks in advance for staying on task and not blabbering about everthing under the sun except the topic. damn I am getting old and grotchity......

first off the 02 sensors do not recalibrate themselves.
your going to go lean guaranteed! seen it to many times.
the stage 1 downloads are a waste of money. they will still leave you lean because they are EPA compliant. so they really don't do much.
yes you need something to allow you to tune the bike.
so even thought you don't want to hear about tuning devices one is needed. it is going to cost you more then 150.00 to get it right.
so if your balking at spending 150.00 then you are really going to sh*t when it cost you at least 625.00 to get it right.
there is a lot of gimmick stuff out there that you can waste your money on as well like the xieds.... fuelers that cause surging, and foolers that turn the technology of the 08 ECM into a dinosaur and do nothing to maximize the TBW to it's fullest.
maybe your better off to stay as you are until you can do it right and not piss away money maybe I am getting old and crotchety but I hate to see people waste money on stuff that doesn't work because they are misinformed..JMO.
__________________
07 ULTRA
SE 120Rxtra....under construction
AMRA
SE 218
DR 218




Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
strokerjlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2010, 09:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
FNG :)
 
oley55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: JAX, Florida
Posts: 12
oley55 wants to know Dino or Syn?
friend, I failed to make my point or adequately post my message. I do not give a hoot about dyno numbers, bragging rights, or anything else. sTROCK 96" does just fine for me as did my 1000CC 76 Sporty, 80" FLH, and most recently 96" FLTR.

I do not need or crave more HP or torque. All I want or need is increased fuel economy without melting a piston.

What say you now?

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by strokerjlk View Post
first off the 02 sensors do not recalibrate themselves.
your going to go lean guaranteed! seen it to many times.
the stage 1 downloads are a waste of money. they will still leave you lean because they are EPA compliant. so they really don't do much.
yes you need something to allow you to tune the bike.
so even thought you don't want to hear about tuning devices one is needed. it is going to cost you more then 150.00 to get it right.
so if your balking at spending 150.00 then you are really going to sh*t when it cost you at least 625.00 to get it right.
there is a lot of gimmick stuff out there that you can waste your money on as well like the xieds.... fuelers that cause surging, and foolers that turn the technology of the 08 ECM into a dinosaur and do nothing to maximize the TBW to it's fullest.
maybe your better off to stay as you are until you can do it right and not piss away money maybe I am getting old and crotchety but I hate to see people waste money on stuff that doesn't work because they are misinformed..JMO.
oley55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2010, 09:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
Seasoned Rider
 
stansuski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: central mass
Posts: 73
stansuski wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by strokerjlk View Post
first off the 02 sensors do not recalibrate themselves.
your going to go lean guaranteed! seen it to many times.
the stage 1 downloads are a waste of money. they will still leave you lean because they are EPA compliant. so they really don't do much.
yes you need something to allow you to tune the bike.
so even thought you don't want to hear about tuning devices one is needed. it is going to cost you more then 150.00 to get it right.
so if your balking at spending 150.00 then you are really going to sh*t when it cost you at least 625.00 to get it right.
there is a lot of gimmick stuff out there that you can waste your money on as well like the xieds.... fuelers that cause surging, and foolers that turn the technology of the 08 ECM into a dinosaur and do nothing to maximize the TBW to it's fullest.
maybe your better off to stay as you are until you can do it right and not piss away money maybe I am getting old and crotchety but I hate to see people waste money on stuff that doesn't work because they are misinformed..JMO.

What he said
Stan
__________________
2005 Ultra,1550 kit,S&S 510g cam,337 gearing,laced wheels,2007 FLHTSE Exhaust w/O2 gauge,SERT custom map,Progressive 440 shocks ,2007 style front forks (non-cartridge)--TRADED ,1987 EG Classic bought new 1st owner 56,000 miles almost stock runs like new.
2010 Ultra Limited--Stock and staying that way (so far)Edit: can't do it! added parts SE255,TTS,2/1/2 Fuelmoto header pipe,2010 Screamin Eagle Ultra CVO 4" mufflers,K&N replacement air filter,S.E, Compensator,96" stock clutch spring.
stansuski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2010, 09:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
glodigger
 
GLODIGGER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oroville Calif
Posts: 442
GLODIGGER wants to know Dino or Syn?
In for the penny in for the pound.
if you are [not][ never] going to do more than that and want it to run better just have the down load,its only like 50 bucks.
it made my 09 run better and cooler after mufflers/air.
you already get top gas milage every thing past here is more
preformance less gas milage & more smiles.
__________________
Dont mind the chips in the paint
Spots on the chrome,every day rider loves to roam


2009 FLHTCU sold
2011 CVO CONVERTABLE FOR SALE
2010 CVO FLHTCU
ONCE YOU GO ULTRA NO GOING BACK
GLODIGGER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2010, 10:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,376
doc ock wants to know Dino or Syn?
You want the best gas mileage then run a completely stock bike. When you change one thing then you just opened a can of worms. Pipes, turns into air-cleaner turns into re-map or aftermarket EMC, then cams and head work and so on........
doc ock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2010, 10:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
 
strokerjlk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: IL.
Posts: 6,810
strokerjlk wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by oley55 View Post
friend, I failed to make my point or adequately post my message. I do not give a hoot about dyno numbers, bragging rights, or anything else. sTROCK 96" does just fine for me as did my 1000CC 76 Sporty, 80" FLH, and most recently 96" FLTR.

I do not need or crave more HP or torque. All I want or need is increased fuel economy without melting a piston.

What say you now?

.
same answer
even a well tuned stock bike ...(your present configuration). will benefit from being tuned. so move on to a stage 1 as you are wanting. once again...will run much better and give you improved fuel economy, provided the tuner knows how to tune to meet your needs. I wasn't talking bragging rights . you will increase hp/tq. though thus improving MPG.if you increase tq. where you ride then it will take less throttle to do the same work. so if your riding habits don't change (happy right wrist) then your needs will be met. All this without the fear of melting a valve guide or piston.
__________________
07 ULTRA
SE 120Rxtra....under construction
AMRA
SE 218
DR 218




Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
strokerjlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2010, 10:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indiana
Posts: 123
stthomas wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by oley55 View Post
All I want or need is increased fuel economy without melting a piston.

What say you now?

.
If you increase air flow with both a free flowing exhaust and free flowing air cleaner, what you are asking for is not possible without buying some kind of new fuel management system to richen up the AFR. Otherwise you will run too lean which means too hot. The HD dealer flash of the stock ECM will NOT richen the AFR enough. However, you would get better fuel mileage; but eventually you would see your heat shields on your rear cylinder turn a golden hue and see particles of aluminum on your spark plugs.
__________________
2005 Electra Glide
Rinehart True Duals
Arlen Ness Big Sucker A/C
Easy Pull Clutch Ramp
HD Hydraulic Chain Tensioner Upgrade
HD High Flow Oil pump Upgrade
PCIII usb
stthomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 02:08 AM   #10 (permalink)
ASA Lives
 
Ultra89Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SoCal/W.TN
Posts: 597
Ultra89Rider wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stthomas View Post
but eventually you would see your heat shields on your rear cylinder turn a golden hue and see particles of aluminum on your spark plugs.
But the '09 has the "Heat Management System" that shuts off the rear cylinder when at an idle and the heat gets to high. if you are moving, the heat dissipation will prevent this.
__________________
la'Hom Ho'neH jorDe' vestai-VamPyr
wa'DIch, IKRV Hurgh HaP, Ring of Fire Fleet
Order of the Bat'LetH
"lIgh tlhab"
(Ride Free)
. . . .
Ultra89Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 06:46 AM   #11 (permalink)
?????
 
msocko3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 3,487
msocko3 wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by oley55 View Post
friend, I failed to make my point or adequately post my message. I do not give a hoot about dyno numbers, bragging rights, or anything else. sTROCK 96" does just fine for me as did my 1000CC 76 Sporty, 80" FLH, and most recently 96" FLTR.

I do not need or crave more HP or torque. All I want or need is increased fuel economy without melting a piston.

What say you now?

.
I can tell you the difference I found in my 2010 Triglide between a Stage 1 dealer download vs a map that has been tweaked and uploaded from my SEST. When I took delivery of my 2010 Triglide last August I had the SE Ventilator and a Stage 1 download done, knew it wasn't money well spent but went with it anyway. The Trike was hot, it ran for sh!t and had no power. I had enough and bought the SEST and reworked a map and uploaded it. The Trike was cooler except for the catalytic converter in the head pipe, and it ran better. If you think you'll be happy with the Stage 1 download then go for it, maybe a placebo is all you need to be happy.
__________________


Red Bike Powered By Head-Quarters 120.. Easier Clutch Pull By ClutchWIZ.com
2012 GL1800 Hannigan.
msocko3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 06:57 AM   #12 (permalink)
Iron Butt, SS2000
 
jerry34208's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bradenton, FL
Posts: 3,399
jerry34208 wants to know Dino or Syn?
My free Internet advice is to leave it bone stock OR get in touch with Doc, (hdmd88 here at the forum). He is only an hour form Jacksonville and is among the top 2% of tuners in any group sample. It's clear that you just want it to "run well".
Do it once & do it right.
__________________
'04 Ultra built & tuned by Doc

'01 FXD built & tuned by Doc

Now if only I could learn to ride worth a sh!t...
jerry34208 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 07:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indiana
Posts: 123
stthomas wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra89Rider View Post
But the '09 has the "Heat Management System" that shuts off the rear cylinder when at an idle and the heat gets to high. if you are moving, the heat dissipation will prevent this.

I think the Heat Management System" started with the 07's. And is intended to handle heat generated by a stock bike without the free breathing changes we are talking about. Moreover, IMHO, that system is merely a bandaid to protect against catastrophic meltdown and/or oil frying. I still think that, in any event, the discoloration and long term damage would still likely occur. If it were me, I would not take such a risk. Rather, I would go with what strokerjlk says.
__________________
2005 Electra Glide
Rinehart True Duals
Arlen Ness Big Sucker A/C
Easy Pull Clutch Ramp
HD Hydraulic Chain Tensioner Upgrade
HD High Flow Oil pump Upgrade
PCIII usb

Last edited by stthomas; 05-07-2010 at 07:38 AM.
stthomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 09:32 AM   #14 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Spokane,Wa
Posts: 1,131
RogerDodger wants to know Dino or Syn?
oley55 - Here's my 2 cents worth: Stroker's got it nailed here. When you add that air cleaner you'll lean out an already very lean motor and risk doing some kind of damage. This EFI stuff isn't really much more expensive when compared to an earlier carb set-up but it's going to cost you some cash and more than $150, for sure. I'm also in agreement with him that the downloads are a waste of money - money that would be better spent on a management device of some sort.
Short answer: Get it tuned and you'll forever happy.
RogerDodger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 05:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
IronButt
 
cata5803's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: St.Aug. Florida
Posts: 1,619
cata5803 wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLODIGGER View Post
In for the penny in for the pound.
if you are [not][ never] going to do more than that and want it to run better just have the down load,its only like 50 bucks.
it made my 09 run better and cooler after mufflers/air.
you already get top gas milage every thing past here is more
preformance less gas milage & more smiles.
What kind of downloads for $50. ?? Not from the Stealer... If you go with a tuning device contact Doc, He's out in the Orlando area.. I'm waiting on stuff then get a tune from Doc.. Good Luck..
__________________
2003 FLHRI Annv, 2005 FLHTI

Last edited by cata5803; 05-07-2010 at 05:40 PM.
cata5803 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
(C)2001-2012 V-twinForum.com All Rights Reserved (C)2001- V-twinForum.com All Rights Reserved
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum