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Old 05-09-2012, 11:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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103" dyno disappointed

Hey guys... I just had some upgrades done to my 2012 street glide. Had a Screamin eagle heavy breather put on paird with klock werks double back headers with their WFB mufflers. Have the super tuner with download and had it put on the dyno. Very disappointed with the results. Ended up with 1/2 hp increase over stock as well as a 1 ft lbs torque increase over stock. For the money this all cost me it doesn't seem worth it for a little more sound.

Are these typical results? I was going to have it dyno tuned but not sure I want to dump another 300 for a couple hp. This setup already ran me 2400.

*Update*
Here is what I got when I had in dyno tuned. The info the tech gave me was 64 hp and 84 ft lbs stock. What he told me over the phone was 65 hp and 84.4 ft lbs after the download. I was going off of the numbers that the tech told me but you'll see that he was wrong. The blue line is my bike stock. Green line is my bike now and the red line was with some wood at the tip of the exhaust acting as back pressure. Also I am getting 46mpg as well. The tech couldn't get it to run any better after a whole day of dyno tuning. Im not sure what to do now after all of this. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
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Last edited by Dinger48; 05-21-2012 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Dyno sheet
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I had similar results with my 2011 Ultra Classic Limited, pipes, air cleaner, and tuner. Does not feel any different. I think the stock head pipes and mufflers breath very well and the ECU does a good job as well untouched. The cat converter cancels most of the noise so they were able use less restricted mufflers from the factory.
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
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For real did you expect a stock stage one upgrade to increase the power? Look at stage 2.5, for a reasonably priced upgrade that will rock your world. The stuff you have added is great no dought and will surely compliment the needed head work and cams that will get you there. Save the dyno tune $$ if its running good with the canned map. Dyno tune the stage 2.5 upgrade. Yes those results are on the mark for the reason I stated. Ride safe.

Last edited by angelflights; 05-11-2012 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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those pipes are the problem...i've heard nothing good regarding the performance aspects of the Doublebacks. If you want to see real performance gains get a 2-1 pipe and a cam upgrade.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:12 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bdBagr View Post
If you want to see real performance gains get a 2-1 pipe and a cam upgrade.


Good advice offered here. A good pipe, good cam set, good tuner and some dyno time will offer great results.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector 12 View Post

Good advice offered here. A good pipe, good cam set, good tuner and some dyno time will offer great results.
I agree with all the above and cannot stress enough to do lots of research and choose wisely on components... Then you need a really good tune. The difference between a pefect tune and a so-so tune is night and day on the drivability, fuel mileage, and your general happiness.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:13 AM   #7 (permalink)
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You didn't say what you had for numbers or what you "think" the stock numbers are. If you think stock numbers are what Harley says in the book, forget it. A regular stage 1-96", will be 75hp and 85tq Sae, give or take a couple. A similiar 103 would have more torque and a little more hp. Also, who's to say they didn't put the wrong download in the SEPST and make things worse. What did you end up with for numbers?
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
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you didnt tune it.
that just shows you a tuning device has to be used to tune the bike.
on a stage 1 such as yours. I see 10/10 increase (at least) when they are tuned vs canned map. and no the sensors are not magic and just dial the bike in.


ok just sent the same thing to durwood so he could show someone.
blue is stock ecm the 2-1 pipe was installed
the red is the stock ecm running the motor with the pipe and andrews 54 cams.
the green is with a canned map that came from durwoods bike,that was tuned with 204 cams. (so it is better than any canned map) ,and it still wasent WOS.


after tuning the bike

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Old 05-14-2012, 06:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strokerjlk View Post
you didnt tune it.
that just shows you a tuning device has to be used to tune the bike.
on a stage 1 such as yours. I see 10/10 increase (at least) when they are tuned vs canned map. and no the sensors are not magic and just dial the bike in.


ok just sent the same thing to durwood so he could show someone.
blue is stock ecm the 2-1 pipe was installed
the red is the stock ecm running the motor with the pipe and andrews 54 cams.
the green is with a canned map that came from durwoods bike,that was tuned with 204 cams. (so it is better than any canned map) ,and it still wasent WOS.


after tuning the bike

I would agree with that, I saw a 15/15 increase after tuning over the canned map.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
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whats next?

Ok...so I updated my original post with a couple of attachments of my dyno runs and a little explanation. At this point at trying to decide what the best way to go about this is. I can either eat the $500 for the SEST and take my bike to Klock Werks, have them put a Power Commander 5 on it and dyno tune it there for another $600 bucks or try and find another shop that has an experienced tuner and spend another $400 to have it dyno tuned correctly. I see a lot of you guys have the SAE CF on your dyno sheets and I noticed that mine was STD so with the numbers I'm showing my bike really isn't running up to par. Klock Werks is telling me that on a stock 103" that they just did with the same headers, intake, their Super Saver mufflers and a PC5 that they pulled 78 HP and 95.6 FT LBS.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:19 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Graph

Im not sure how to make my graph larger but you really can't read it.

blue line Stock max power is 65.77 hp and 84.05 ft lbs

red graph with wood behind pipes for more back pressure & upgrades
is 66.54 hp and 84.47 ft lbs

green graph (now) after upgrades is 62.77 hp and 76.45 ft lbs
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Im not going to say that the numbers dont matter, but unless the dyno's that you are comparing are from the same shop and same dyno machine, i dont think you can really get a reliable comparison. At the best i think it only gives you a ball park to shoot for and if your numbers come up short of someone else's from another shop and dyno i wouldnt be to disappointed, what i would really use to compare is the actual gain of horsepower and torque from your first run stock to the best run they can get, the gain not the high number i think is the most important. Compare that to another shop and dyno with the same starting point on a bike , first run stock, to best run they can get, take the two total numbers gained and you have something to compare, also taking into count where each shop is located, the humidity at the time of the runs, the altitude, and all the other important facts tallied up. Still dont be disappointed if your numbers come up just short of someone elses, ride it, hows it feel to you, if your happy, you have a good tune. JMO
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bdBagr View Post
those pipes are the problem...i've heard nothing good regarding the performance aspects of the Doublebacks. If you want to see real performance gains get a 2-1 pipe and a cam upgrade.
I have a 2-1 pipe, but it is a pro pipe slip on with stock header; I also have a 48h cam w/ PC-5. I like the way it pulls, but long for the dual exhaust (Harley) sound. I have been looking at both the Jackpot header and the double back header- Jackpot shows some before and after dynos, Klock Werks does not= strike one. Not finding much support / dynos on the site= strike two. May not need a 3rd strike as I am skeptical now. Klock Werks specializes in windshields etc and not on performace mods.

I do like the sound of the KW SS pipes, so I am thinking of adding them on the end of the Fuel Moto / Jackpot header. Now, if they were only "tuned" to the Jackpot header......
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
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That is just it...At this point I just spent all this money on what? A little bit of sound? I am a full 3 hp and almost 8 ft lbs of torque down from stock. Im not going to talk bad about Klock Werks since I am originally from that area and I remember Brian starting his shop out of a garage. Im just saying that they wouldn't mass produce these things and actually sell them if they were going to "hurt" performance. I let the dealership talk me into pipes, intake, and tuner. Any one of the 3 should have "helped" me. i was told 10-12% power gains and then I even let them talk me into a dyno tune to gain power which I didn't gain anything. I know that a true dual system isn't going to perform like a 2 into 1 but again I shouldn't be losing power. One other thing is KW builds all these custom bikes and even their employees have their double backs on their bikes. These are the headers that they use. The only difference is that they use their super saver mufflers on the bikes. Again, I'm not looking for huge gains, for almost 3000 dollars at this point I was expecting to see a little gains, but definitely not a loss.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:43 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Research is key to making wise, bang for your buck performance decisions. I'd say a cam really should have been on your shopping list. Years ago i had a 94 Heritage with a 80" evo in it, stock dynoed at an arm ripping 43 (!) HP. Had stock HD vintage style duals on it. Took baffles out and re-jetted carb, 49 HP! Put in a cam the tuner had laying around, re-jetted again and went to 65 hp. Huge seat of the pants increase and what 30% jump? Similar results with my 88" Road King. Stock cams are strictly for emissions and satisfying new bike EPA regs. Put in a cam THEN re-tune and you will get what you were seeking. I'm not BS'ing u!
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