114" Dyno / Flat Torque Curve : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

SYCLONE · 03-22-2008, 04:40 PM

I wasnt happy with the upper end noise with the T-Man 590 cams. Real steep ramps almost like a Woods 6gh. But I didnt want to lose the quick low end "bite" I had, as they made big torque at 2200.
Talked at length with Reggie Sr. at R&R about my build. He wanted the flow numbers on the heads, especially at .300-.400 lift. He felt I could use some help on the exhaust side, and recommended his 615/585 cams. Said they would surely be quieter and doubted I would lose much on the bottom because opening the exhaust at 57 insted of 42 would give me better fill on the intake, a cooler motor, and more power up top.
Build is 10.7:1 , 1.94 intake / 1.63 exhaust, 1.675 rollers which gives me .634 intake lift and .603 exhaust lift. Fat Cat exhaust with 3.37 primary gearing. 3.15 primary gearing would help the numbers by 3-4 horsepower and torque.
Well, Reggie was right. Got the cams in and had Todd at Century H-D tune it with my SERT this time using wide band o2's screwed into the header pipes...Just listening to it in the shop it sounds really good /quieter...... now I just need some riding weather. Bike is my '05 SE-E Glide.
And ya..I know the numbers are STD...dont care. I wanted less noise
without losing the early torque.

compressor#v · 03-22-2008, 05:14 PM

What cylinders and pistons did you use?

hrdtail78 · 03-23-2008, 04:23 AM

Right on.

SYCLONE · 03-23-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compressor#v

What cylinders and pistons did you use?

I have "those" cylinders from RevPerf. and CP pistons...... I guess time will tell as I have about 1,000 miles on the build.
Trying to look on the bright side of things...IF they have a failure rate of 30 percent..which I dont feel they do...I've got a 70 percent chance of being ok.
Last CCP test with the 590's showed 204/200 (800 ft altitude) so I'm exactly on my target number. Those numbers will drop with the cam change a little.
If they fail, I will not re-build with them...I'll build a "BIG" motor. I have a stroker crank in stock that would just need the weld/true/balance treatment like the stock stroke crank in the motor now.
We'll see.

oh1deuce · 03-23-2008, 12:49 PM

Do yourself a favor and check them with a bore scope every 500 miles or so. I was lucky to catch mine at about 1,500, and it was early enough not to do any further damage like some have had.

Someone else can chime in on the bore scopes. Get a good one.

Totenkopf · 03-23-2008, 12:49 PM

syclone,
good to see you post up!

Nice looking sheet, I spot checked and ran some VE numbers based on hp at specific rpm's and your dyno operator did a great job! Completely realistic.

By the way, the T590 exhaust opens at 48* BBDC vs. 57* for the 615. 9* earlier, hence bleeding down the cylinder a touch earlier. And the 615 intake closes 4* later at 48*. (side note: I'm strongly considering the 615 for a future 117 build, I like the timings on this cam alot)

By the way, I would strongly recommend that you get the gearing right for that motor. Let the motor pull more gear instead of wasting power out the exhaust pipe.

All the best!

alibiforyou · 03-23-2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totenkopf

syclone,
good to see you post up!

Nice looking sheet, I spot checked and ran some VE numbers based on hp at specific rpm's and your dyno operator did a great job! Completely realistic.

By the way, the T590 exhaust opens at 48* BBDC vs. 57* for the 615. 9* earlier, hence bleeding down the cylinder a touch earlier. And the 615 intake closes 4* later at 48*. (side note: I'm strongly considering the 615 for a future 117 build, I like the timings on this cam alot)

By the way, I would strongly recommend that you get the gearing right for that motor. Let the motor pull more gear instead of wasting power out the exhaust pipe.

All the best!

Tote-Curious to know which of the 3 VE formulas did you use?

Marty59 · 03-23-2008, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totenkopf

syclone,
good to see you post up!

Nice looking sheet, I spot checked and ran some VE numbers based on hp at specific rpm's and your dyno operator did a great job! Completely realistic.
...All the best!

It's great when theory and practice come together!

SYCLONE · 03-23-2008, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totenkopf

syclone,
good to see you post up!

Nice looking sheet, I spot checked and ran some VE numbers based on hp at specific rpm's and your dyno operator did a great job! Completely realistic.

By the way, the T590 exhaust opens at 48* BBDC vs. 57* for the 615. 9* earlier, hence bleeding down the cylinder a touch earlier. And the 615 intake closes 4* later at 48*. (side note: I'm strongly considering the 615 for a future 117 build, I like the timings on this cam alot)

By the way, I would strongly recommend that you get the gearing right for that motor. Let the motor pull more gear instead of wasting power out the exhaust pipe.

All the best!

Thanks Tote.....and you're correct on the cam numbers also..(brain fart again !!) And just giving both cams a visual, side by side, the lobe shape difference is very apparent. I can see why guys often comment on how quite the 615/585's are.
And after reading your post, I went and pulled the 3.15 basket out of the "stock room". I'll see if the motor likes more load.

Totenkopf · 03-23-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alibiforyou

Tote-Curious to know which of the 3 VE formulas did you use?

These two.....

VE = [9411 x hp x .53 x 100%] / [rpm x CID]

VE = [792001.6 x hp] / [AP x CR x CID x rpm]

syclone's sheet is in STD, reduce by 3-4% for SAE.... and also don't forget to add the drivetrain loss of 12% back in.

I get VE 110 - 111% with 67hp at 3000 rpm and then 112 - 113% with 100hp at 4400 rpm.