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103 Stage 3 kit or 103 Stage 2 kit?

50K views 28 replies 16 participants last post by  HogBag 
#1 ·
Guys,

I've got a 2009 Road King and am looking to do a Harley Davidson / Screaming Eagle kit. (not S&S, or anything that i have to peace together.)

I was originally looking at the Stage 4 kit, and decided on the Stage 3 kit (as per the HD Screaming Eagle catalog it looks like the kit has good TQ and HP from 1500 to 4000 rpm's etc.. which is were I like my power band to be. The Stage 4 kit seems to be in the Higher RPM ranges and is more for HP. I like the price of the Stage 3 kit at around $2,300.00 for parts and labor which might give me around an estimated 100hp, and 100tq at the rear wheel. Actuall kit costs $1499.00 in parts.

My dilemma is the the Stage 3 kit will invalidate my engine from a coverage perspective as it "won't be covered under the 5 year warranty that i purchased."

But the 103 Stage 2 kit if installed "will" be covered. The Stage 2 includes the Stage 1 parts, High Flow Air Filer, block of plate, etc..
At the Stage 2 kits seems to also produce a modest 70-80 TQ and HP as shone in the Screaming Eagle Catalog. The Stage 2 kit costs $899.00 in parts which is cheaper then the Stage 3 and 4.

1) In your opinion is the Stage 2 kit worth it from a performance and Warrenty perspective?
2) Do i need to still purchase the SERT / Super Tuner with a Stage 2 / 1 kit setup?
3) If you didn't know it already the cool thing on the Stage 3 kit was that the kit came with the $450.00 Super Tuner. But I'll have to trun right around if i go with the Stage 2 and purchase the tuner which basically brings me back to to the Stage 3 price.

My feeling is i'm leaning towards the Stage 2, but want advise on what else i need in my setup. Also It seems that I'm spending more money, taking a power lose, all in an effort to keep my warranty.

4) Do you think i'll still be happy with the performance gain all things considered?
 
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#2 · (Edited)
I personally wouldnt spend money on any of the screamin beagle stuff but thats just me. From a performance standpoint it just doesnt seem worth it. If you do decide to do it, make sure it really doesnt void your warranty. My dad purchased a warranty and had stuff done on his bike by the dealer. As he was told if the dealership did the work when he bought it, that his warranty was good to go. Now he can only take it in to the dealership where he bought it to have his warranty work done, becuase I guess they basically have to lie for him to get it covered. Well guess what, he has a problem with the bike and has taken it back 4-5 times and they cant figure it out. Guess they are getting tired of messing it with it. Because now the dealer is saying,
"well you know we are just doing you a favor anyway since its not really covered under warranty with this engine work we did for you" He is pissed. Like I said I wouldnt let one of my local dealerships change a tire for me, but thats just me. YMMV

As far as you being happy with it from a performance standpoint, if you are expecting to be at or over 100hp/tq with the 103 kit then I dont think you will be. A guy I know is right around 100hp/tq on an motor he built. He routinely eats up two guys that ride
SE 110's :eek:
 
#4 ·
The stage II kit that consists of 103" and SE255 cams and a great bang for the buck kit. The best IMO. If you go to the dyno section and my indepth report is about 3 pages back. It's perfect on a bagger. BTW, this kit is about $630 with shipping from Zanotti HD.

The stage III kit I guess is the 110". This has been a problematic upgrade. If you read American Iron Mag. the last four issues Donny Petersons column has been on the headgasket problems with the 110". This is also expensive since you have to pull the engine down to bore the cases for the bigger cylinders. You could have a screaming 103" built for less that would wax the 110".

I have no experience with the Stage IV kit, if that's the 113".

If you have any questions on my build, just ask or send an IM.

Chris
 
#6 · (Edited)
The stage II kit that consists of 103" and SE255 cams and a great bang for the buck kit. The best IMO. If you go to the dyno section and my indepth report is about 3 pages back. It's perfect on a bagger. BTW, this kit is about $630 with shipping from Zanotti HD.
I agree although I haven't had direct experience with the whole kit. I just installed the SE255 cams in my TC96 with Fuel Moto Power Package (PCV-AT, AC, and Dyno-Tuned Jackpot muffers), which I already had on the bike, and I'm very impressed with the results. The cam change alone moved my TQ curve up impressively, not up and to the right with a corresponding decrease in low-end TQ. It is not a racing cam and does not produce copious peak-HP numbers, but is very strong in the low-end, midrange, and up to about 5500 RPM's. I spend most of my time below 4K, so this is perfect for me.

With the added c.i. and compression afforded by the 103 kit I would think this would be a clear winner for the money. What I would advise is to go in another direction rather than with the SEAC and any HD muffler. Look into the Stage 2 kit and adding the Fuel Moto Power Package, described here.
 
#5 ·
Guys,

I've got a 2009 Road King and am looking to do a Harley Davidson / Screaming Eagle kit. ...4) Do you think i'll still be happy with the performance gain all things considered?... Wish you the best but I once thought like you do and it cost me a lot of money to learn the truth.
I personally wouldnt spend money on any of the screamin beagle stuff but thats just me. From a performance standpoint it just doesnt seem worth it. If you do decide to do it, make sure it really doesnt void your warranty. My dad purchased a warranty and had stuff done on his bike by the dealer. As he was told if the dealership did the work when he bought it, that his warranty was good to go. Now he can only take it in to the dealership where he bought it to have his warranty work done, becuase I guess they basically have to lie for him to get it covered. Well guess what, he has a problem with the bike and has taken it back 4-5 times and they cant figure it out. Guess they are getting tired of messing it with it. Because now the dealer is saying,
"well you know we are just doing you a favor anyway since its not really covered under warranty with this engine work we did for you"
He is pissed. Like I said I wouldnt let one of my local dealerships change a tire for me, but thats just me. YMMV I got the same treatment at my local dealer.

As far as you being happy with it from a performance standpoint, if you are expecting to be at or over 100hp/tq with the 103 kit then I dont think you will be. A guy I know is right around 100hp/tq on an motor he built. He routinely eats up two guys that ride
SE 110's :eek:

Live and learn. Best wishes..
 
#7 · (Edited)
The OP expressed an interest in keeping his warranty. I felt the same way. I had the Stage II installed on my 2009 SG. I also had them install the SE Touring muffler. It runs very strong in town and on the highway. I have 83HP and 99TQ. And best of all it's all covered under warranty. That warranty is good across the country, no matter what the alarmists say here. It's not the dealer's warranty it's HD. Oh yes, and I have the Stage II ECU download. An aftermarket unit such as the PCV or Fuel Pack can void the warranty.
 
#11 ·
I think you might be right about the warranty issue. My father does have the PC installed. But Im almost positive the dealer indicated that the pipes were what voided his warranty. In any event it clearly states in the catalog that if installed by a HD dealership the parts in THAT KIT specifically will not void your warranty. So as long as they use those parts in the kit you should be good to go.
 
#10 ·
Thanks guys for all of the feedback. I've made up my mind and planning on going down this path in 4-5 weeks. I'll be sure to post the results.

I don't have access to link that cross references above to the other post and that guys dyno "before and after" results. Can someone post the picture in this thread so that it "displays" in the Dyno chart itself rather then just showing the "attachment"?

Thanks
jstevens2005
 
#12 ·
Stage 2

I've finally got my 103 Stage 2 broken in. I love it. It is the best bang for the buck you can get. No, the guys down at the pool hall won't be impressed with the dyno chart's horse power numbers. But what you feel on the road is incredible. That SE255 cam is quite impressive down low. Geez, at 2500RPM it is making more torque than the stock 96 at peak! Hits like a hammer! And all covered by Harley's warranty. You'll love it.
 
#16 ·
Geez, at 2500RPM it is making more torque than the stock 96 at peak!


I've never cared to have one of mine put on a dyno. My seat of the pants dyno works good enough for me

The seat of your pants must be tuned very well if you can tell all that from just from riding :whistle:
 
#13 ·
Also, the OP states that the stage2 kit produces 70-80 tq/hp Per the SE catalog. And I know there dyno #'s are on the high end. Then we have a dyno sheet with a guy claiming his is SE stage 2 kit is making 105tq and 90hp. What am I missing here?
 
#14 ·
The numbers quoted from the SE Catalog have just about got to be in error because those numbers are pretty danged close to the stock numbers of a 96 inch engine.

I've never cared to have one of mine put on a dyno. My seat of the pants dyno works good enough for me, and this thang is putting a smile on my face which it the only read out I need.
 
#17 ·
I do belive the SE catalog number might be with stock pipes or something. I have the SE 103 stage II with he 255 cams, SE air cleaner, SEST and Dyno tune, and D&D Fatcat and got 89HP and 101FTLB of torque and I have seen very similar numbers from other guys with similar setups. 86-90 HP and 98-103FTLBS seem to be the norm with this kit with a dyno tune and good pipes.
 
#18 ·
I got the work in my sig and it did not affect my warranty. Was told my warranty was still valid (at any dealer). I think I had about 2500 miles or so on the bike before the work. Don't know what "stage" the work is. I think the whole voided warranty thing is a scare tactic used by some dealers.
 
#19 ·
I hate to be the fly in your ointment, but I hope if you have a problem you have money to cover it. The extended warranty is very clear on your build, "it aint' covered".

The lastest SE catalog has the 103" kit with the SE251 cams (a first year for this kit) and it states; For race application only. Not like some of the kits that state; When installed by HD dealership does not inpact the limited warranty.

You might get a dealer to fudge the invoice to cover your problem by not saying your engine is not stock, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Chris
 
#21 ·
Diggerpine here; I put in the 103 Stage II at 12,000 miles and now have 14,000 on it since. Total of 26,000....I'm happy!

Ride Safe!
Steven
 
#24 ·
Drop a PM to Randy at Hyperformance, one of the site sponsers. I'm having him install a Stage IV upgrade on my Dyna this week.

I don't know as much about setups as the REALLY techical guys here, but I do know i've spent two years buying Harleys Stage I stuff, Teclusions, Terry Components FI box, exhausts and never getting what I wanted. Waste of time and money. I tried to get by with nickel and diming. That was my "stupid tax" as Dave Ramsey calls it.

I know warrenty is an issue, but search the forum all you can about Hyperformance's quality and make your own decision. Even though the HD stuff will be under warrenty, I don't think you will be happy with the performance.

IMHO - Bite the bullet don't nickel and dime. You will end up at the same place two years down the road and a couple g's lighter.
 
#26 ·
Purely depends on what you are looking for. Obviously what you were looking for could not be done with the parts you were installing. But I also know that what I am looking for would probably not be accomplished with the HP's Stage IV either. I have Harley's Stage 2 103" on mine now and am VERY satisfied. And it cost a fraction of what the HP Stage IV would have cost and I probably would not have liked the results of the HP. Builds are done differently for different reasons. One needs to first define what one's goal is for a build, then pursue the best way to get there. My goal was gobs more low end torque for a loaded bagger ridden two up most of the time. And since I ride all over the country, having my factory warranty cover everything was required. The HD Stage 2 103inch build fits that perfectly.
 
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