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[moorefun]

Originally Posted by hjdistl

You hit on several good points here.

But here is the thing that I have an issue with (not with you)

"they just don't seem to be peak performers without dyno time."

I do not think anyone with a SERT and dyno time can honestly and truthfully say the peak performance is better than a closed loop system that has been tweaked. (Please refer to Post#74 in this thread) because unless you have ran both side by side under the same conditions no way do you know.

Sorry, theory does not cut it because in theory a helicopter and a bumble bee are not supposed to be able to fly. Of course everyone know that a helicopter does not fly the just beat the air into submission.

Here is the challenge I have for both a tuner and Zippers. Someone please do a heads up comparison. No guessing like many are doing and making assumptions (We all know the 3 key words in assume).

I would like to see a typical 95 build that has been tuned by an average SERT Tuner and a dyno run sheet from it. I say average, because from what I read most are average (not slinging mud at anybody, just repeating what I have read. I know there are some excellent ones out there)

Then the same bike with a closed loop system set up like in Post #74 (any owner of a TM w AT can do that) and a dyno run sheet from it.

Maybe we can get one of the big name Motorcycle Magazines to do just such a test. (Maybe the one the forum is named after???)

I think it would be one hell of a shoot out.

What do you think??

PS in the 30's and still ridding. Wife thinks I am nutzzz but then again she has though that for many years.

I wish someone would do this test as well.

I was looking at the ThunderMax and the Daytona Twin Tech. I was leaning towards the TM. Steve (GMR) talked me into the DTT instead of the TM. He said he put one on a 124 he did and it worked out great. So I took his advice and had him order me one on Saturday.

I have a couple of dyno tests I would like to do.

First one would be with my current configuration (GMR 98 Stage II, D&D Fat Cat, Power Commander III). I have not had this configuration tuned. The guy that Steve recommends "as the best tunner in Phoenix" is without a dyno at least until the end of the month. This is the main reasion I started looking at the TM and the DTT. The current map is from a bike with the same build, exhaust, etc and it was tuned by the guy that Steve recommends. It runs great with this map, no hesitation, poping or serging. Gets decent mileage, and plugs look nice and tan. There is a slight pinging at a 2400 to 2600 full throttle roll on. So I know it is probably not perfect, but it probably would fit "average" catagory.

Second one would be to install the DTT. Let it auto tune and I would tweek the base map like the instructions say. Let it auto tune again. Then have it dynoed and see what the numbers say.

Third install the DTT with base map, disable auto tune and take it to Steves dyno guy and have him tune it. See what the numbers are.

Fourth, turn on auto tune, with the map made by the tuner in the third test. Let it auto tune and check the numbers on the dyno.

Fifth test, for my own curiosity. When I had Steve build the motor I had Rineheart duals on the bike. He suggested I change to the Fat Cat. I rode it for 600 or 700 miles with the Rinehearts on, then switched to the Fat Cat. I liked the sound better with the Rinehearts. It did seem to pick up some low-mid end (bleow 3000 rpm) with the Fat Cat, but I feel I lost some on the mid - high end (above 3000 rpm). Dont have anything to support this feeling except the butt dyno. So put the Rinehearts on, DTT with base map, let it tune, tweek the base map according to the manual. Let it retune. Dyno it and compare it to test 2.

There is a dyno shop close to my house that will do a pull for $20 bucks. So $100 for 5 dyno runs. I can handle that. The only hesitation is to spend the $400 to $500 for test 3. I could take it to an "average" tuner for about $200. Then I would be looking at $300.

Mark